2X eCommerce Podcast

Dylan Jahraus: A lot of people think,
Oh, I have to be at 20 or less in order to

get, customers or it has to be under 50.

I sell products that are over 600.

I have a student who sells 15, 000 tables.

Okay.

From Spain.

So you have, it's not a specific price
point, but I would say at different

price points, you have to do different
strategies to convert someone.

So what someone needs, the information
they need to make a decision that is, a

thousand dollar transaction, it's going
to be so different than what someone

needs to, buy a 99 cent digital download.

Mhm.

Dylan Jahraus: Etsy came out with
some announcements about new product

categories that they are allowing.

And they're very clear now on their
policies, which before there was a

lot of ambiguity about what you could
sell and what you couldn't sell.

And, when there's gray area,
People push the boundaries.

Mhm.

Dylan Jahraus: We focus really on Etsy
SEO because it is a search engine and.

It is improving and it's becoming
more dynamic and fitting, your

customer's previous behavior.

And SEO is so essential.

You could be selling like, a
500, 000 diamond in a listing.

And if you don't have the right
SEO and you were selling it for 10.

You're right.

Such a deal.

No one would find it.

And it could be on Etsy for a
year and no one would buy it

because they're not finding it.

Mhm.

Kunle Campbell: So on today's episode,
we explore how to leverage Etsy as a

powerful selling channel to expand your
e-commerce brands, reach and revenue.

This is the 2x e commerce
podcast hosted by Kunle Campbell.

Kunle Campbell: Welcome to
the 2X eCommerce Podcast.

I'm your host Kunle.

Campbell and today's episode is tailored
specifically for established e-commerce

operators, looking to diversify.

And expand their sales channels.

We have Dylan Jahraus with
us, a seasoned Etsy expert.

Who has successfully transformed her
side hustle into a six figure business.

Dylan will share her insights on how
to effectively use Etsy to compliment

your existing sales channels.

Optimize your product listings
enhance your customer experience.

Whether you're seeking to tap into Etsy.

unique marketplace.

Or improve your current strategy.

This episode is packed
with practical advice.

And proven tactics from Dylan.

To help you grow your brand.

Stay tuned and make sure to
follow the 2X eCommerce Podcast

on your favorite platform for more
expert insights and strategies.

And without further
ado, let's get started.

Hey, Dylan, welcome to
the 2X eCommerce podcast.

Dylan Jahraus: Thank you
so much for having me.

I'm excited to be here.

Kunle Campbell: No, I'm super
excited because we haven't

had anybody speak to Etsy.

And I know it's a formidable channel, e
commerce channel, which audience would be

really looking forward to hearing about.

But before we jump into Etsy, I
would like to know your backstory.

Cause I know.

your background predates the last
eight years you've been in Etsy.

So I would just like to,
you to dive in and share.

Dylan Jahraus: Yes.

I'm from the Midwest in the
United States and I grew up

in Minnesota on a horse farm.

I think like a lot of entrepreneurs,
I had a bit of a tough childhood

growing up, some tragedy in the family.

I had a sister who actually had
a heart attack when she was 15.

She's two years older than me and
she is permanently brain damaged.

And then my dad is a drug addict, right?

he's been an addict for over 35
years and a lot of instability.

So I'm very driven, I would
say by achievement and

building a life for my family.

I went to school on the East coast.

So William and Mary studied
business, actually studied buying

and product development in London,
and then got into e commerce.

Out of college.

worked for Zappos they're owned by
Amazon and then Zulily, which is

the flash sale model up in Seattle.

Got married, met someone in the military.

You move a lot in the military
and started my own thing.

we actually just put something
random on Etsy from my wedding.

And all of a sudden, two
months later, it sold.

I started applying corporate
e commerce background to.

That platform and the rest is history,

Kunle Campbell: Wow.

What yeah, what to start but
I'm glad you sound like you have

balance and you've found a path.

Through e commerce through Etsy for
that stability, across the board.

Now I really like the fact that you
worked for Zappos, Zulily, I remember

those times early is 2010s, right?

Early 2010s.

What did you take away from
your early e commerce experience

that has been fundamental?

In your etsy journey,

Dylan Jahraus: right?

So I would say at Zappos, delivering
happiness, that's a big thing.

So I call a customer, the customer
experience, the invisible playing field.

Cause it's really hard to replicate
and it's really hard to repeat and

it's hard for people to compete
with you and take that from you.

So that is something I took from Zappos.

Really creating that bending over
backwards for your customers, even as

a buyer they put you on the phones at
Christmas to handle customer service for a

couple hours just to have that experience
and to keep your feet on the ground.

That customer experience part and
really being able to position yourself

as a premium brand and being able
to charge more because you sell to

people who value that experience.

That's really what I took
away from that company.

Kunle Campbell: okay, and then yeah
zappos Tony shay is he's the ultimate

when it comes to customer experience
and I was I was studying jeff bezos

You know the other time and There was
a time he was at the airport and, at

airport security, where they take on
shoes, where you take your shoes off

and, put it through the security.

He saw a Zappos poster there and was
like, damn, this guy's a well ahead of us.

In terms of the congruence.

And I think one of the reasons why he
bought Zappos was customer experience in

terms of they were well ahead of Amazon
from a customer experience standpoint,

and they had to integrate a lot of
those learnings into the Amazon model.

That is good learning for you.

Okay.

So you talked about your wedding.

What did you sell initially
on Etsy from your wedding?

Was it like a wedding gift

Dylan Jahraus: Yeah.

You're welcome.

so we did a lot of our flowers
for the wedding ourselves and

they were artificial flowers.

So my husband and I he's
like a, he's in the military.

He's a submarine officer, very,
technical and everything, very

much an engineering mindset.

So we basically took foam and
toothpicks and we put together a

letter J, which is our last name
initial, and we stuck flowers into it.

So it was a flow.

It looked like a floral letter J.

And we, I took a picture of
it to send to my mom and I'm

like, I'll just put it online.

I think I was thinking about eBay or Etsy.

I was like, Oh, which one?

Sure.

I'll throw it on Etsy.

Open this Etsy account
through one picture up.

No SEO.

No, I can't believe someone
bought it to be honest.

And then it's sold two months later,
we're leaving for the honeymoon and

someone bought it and I thought, Oh no.

Now we're going to have to figure out
how to make this in a way we can ship it.

Kunle Campbell: Interesting.

And then what was your
first year on, on Etsy?

Dylan Jahraus: Yeah, between month two,
so it took two months to get one sale.

But by month four, we were
doing over 10, 000 a month.

And that was solely by applying everything
from corporate e commerce to Etsy.

I don't know why I was treating it
like, we call it in the U S like

Craigslist Or just like a marketplace
where you just threw something

up, like a garage sale online.

That's how I treated it when
I put the first thing up.

And then I thought, look
this is a marketplace.

I should apply everything I know to this.

Why didn't I do that?

And then, 10, 000 a month and
way beyond in the first year.

So about 134, 000 year one.

Kunle Campbell: Okay.

And you were selling just one skew, which
was the fact that the artificial flowers.

Dylan Jahraus: It expanded
into two products.

So it was floral letters, all
custom, made to order, and then

baby mobiles for nurseries.

Kunle Campbell: Okay.

Dylan Jahraus: Yeah, it's like a
something that hangs above a crib.

You call it like a pram?

Or no, maybe that's a,

Kunle Campbell: It's a quarter baby court.

Dylan Jahraus: There you go.

Kunle Campbell: Okay.

So from year one you've been In Etsy
for about eight years, how has Etsy

evolved where in 2024 which means
that you started at about 2016 if

my math's correct, what's been the
evolution from 2016 Etsy to 2024 Etsy?

Dylan Jahraus: It is.

Yeah, exactly.

2016 and 2016.

It was not very difficult.

I sold something that had one picture
and it was maybe like a three word

title and hardly any description.

there was so much
friction in that listing.

I can't believe someone
actually bought it.

Now you could never put something
up like that and have it sell.

It probably wouldn't even get traffic.

So I think the number of
sellers has increased greatly.

And I think a big shift happened
in 2020 where a lot more people

were home and just trying to do all
the different online side hustles.

And Etsy is probably one of
the easiest, much easier than

Amazon, easier than Shopify.

It was, a low barrier to entry, which kind
of flooded the marketplace with some low

quality sellers who weren't very serious.

combine that with the stimulus checks
here in the U S people getting hundreds

of dollars a week, thousands of
dollars a month from the government.

Some of them didn't even need the money
and they were spending it on Etsy.

They really were.

So after that money dried up and there's
all these sellers on the platform.

It looks saturated, but it's really not
saturated with high quality listings.

So the landscape is different and also
consumer spending is different now.

Kunle Campbell: Okay.

That's super interesting.

And would you say that Etsy is still
a handmade marketplace or has it been

infiltrated with mass production items?

Dylan Jahraus: Yeah.

So last week Etsy came out with
some announcements about new product

categories that they are allowing.

And they're very clear now on their
policies, which before there was a

lot of ambiguity about what you could
sell and what you couldn't sell.

And, when there's gray area,
People push the boundaries.

And it's also a less secure marketplace
when there's so much gray area.

So now they've become much more black
and white about what's allowed and

you can actually sell things that
are not handmade digital products.

Made by a production partner, even sourced
commercially, which is a new category.

They've become very clear on
is sourcing things commercially

and reselling basically.

So there's different ways to do
that with like gift baskets or

supply category, event items.

And this I think is great
for sellers because it will.

I would say weed out the low
quality, ugly designs and it's

just opened up a new playing field.

Kunle Campbell: Speaking
of our customer experience.

What is going into the head of
an Etsy shopper, what are they

looking for when they get into Etsy?

Certainly not the same mindset
when they're on Amazon, right?

So do you want to describe that
experience they're expecting, their

expectation when they're browsing
through and what really pisses them off?

Dylan Jahraus: Yes.

So what pisses customers off

Kunle Campbell: Yeah.

Dylan Jahraus: you're saying?

Yeah.

So basically Etsy customers, they
are different than Amazon and there's

a different set of expectations.

So Amazon, they expect
free returns, right?

you expect on Amazon, you can
use a product and return it if

you didn't like how it performed.

And that is not going to fly on
Etsy because every Etsy shop,

they own their own policies.

You don't have to accept returns.

You can be very stringent on your
policies and buyers know that.

They typically don't try to pull some
of the same behavior that they do

with Amazon sellers, which is great.

But also Etsy customers are more patient.

They don't expect, this to be
at their doorstep in 24 hours.

This is not the Amazon
prime expectation here.

Now they still will value, Fast shipping,
but they value the uniqueness of the

product more than the turnaround time.

So if you can do things like
personalization if you can do things

that are unique custom made to order your
customers, they're willing to be patient

and they're willing to pay a lot for that.

Kunle Campbell: Makes sense.

And then from the.

I think I'll probe more into
the customer's expectations.

Are they looking for, are they always
looking for handmade items for artisan

items, things that you see in a
pop up market, town markets, or are

they more open to other categories?

Dylan Jahraus: They're very open.

And, we even see a large category of a B2B
market on Etsy where maybe it's digital

products for other business owners.

I had a student because now
we teach this to Etsy sellers.

And I had a student, she has
a very, I would say, Kind of

an engineering background.

She worked full time and she started
an Etsy shop with spreadsheets.

So these are high utility items.

They help people save time and make money.

Great things to sell online.

If you can save time, make
money or save money for someone.

And within six months, she's making
25, 000 a month with spreadsheets.

And these are low price point
items, a digital product.

So yes, it takes time upfront to
create that, but it just keeps selling.

Kunle Campbell: Yeah, that's really
impressive in regards to, selling digital

products and especially digital products
that appeal to a very mass market.

I'm sure with her, is she doing a
bit of advertising outside of Etsy

to push people through to her store?

Dylan Jahraus: Yeah.

So no ads actually.

And yeah.

So my big thing is growing organic first,
as big as you can with organic It does

have an ad interface that you can use.

It's Etsy ads, but it's probably one
of the worst ways to spend your money.

They don't even allow you
to set, your maximum bid.

They don't allow you to allocate
different spend for different

keywords, nothing like that.

So it's little control.

You just.

Put in money and they
spend it how they want to.

So no targeting, nothing
like that is happening.

If you needed to do ads, like
we would recommend Facebook ads

or something with meta first.

But no she did this all
with organic methods.

SEO primarily is, that's a huge
part of being successful in Etsy.

Kunle Campbell: Okay.

And is the SEO for Etsy search
or is the SEO for Google search?

Dylan Jahraus: Yes.

So the SEO, we teach it for both because
we definitely, there are products

that will be great for what they call
offsite ads, which is where Etsy is

promoting your products through Google.

We want to make sure you're ranking
appropriately there and that you will

fall under the terms they're bidding on.

But we focus really on Etsy SEO
because it is a search engine and.

It is I would say improving and it's
becoming more dynamic and fitting,

your customer's previous behavior.

And SEO is so essential.

If you could have the perfect
product and I told someone, I think

yesterday, you could be selling like,
a 500, 000 diamond in a listing.

And if you don't have the right
SEO and you were selling it for 10.

You're right.

Such a deal.

No one would find it.

And it could be on Etsy for a
year and no one would buy it

because they're not finding it.

Kunle Campbell: Okay.

Makes sense.

And then what about price points?

What is the mindset?

How much is an Etsy shopper looking to
spend at individual sessions, do you have,

is there a range, a typical range in mind?

Dylan Jahraus: a lot Of people think, Oh,
I have to be at 20 or less in order to

get, customers or it has to be under 50.

I sell products that are over 600.

I have a student who sells 15, 000 tables.

Okay.

From Spain.

So you have, it's not a specific price
point, but I would say at different

price points, you have to do different
strategies to convert someone.

So what someone needs, the information
they need to make a decision that is, a

thousand dollar transaction, it's going
to be so different than what someone

needs to, buy a 99 cent digital download.

Kunle Campbell: in fact, the table next
to me, just thinking about it, I've

bought it from Etsy and, I spent a few
hundred, a hundred pounds, on, on it.

I think that, yeah, I spent just
under 500 pounds for the table.

And yeah, it just felt very
artisan if that makes sense.

So you're right.

You're very right.

It depends on what you what
you're in the market for.

And that price into furniture
is very high price point.

I also buy Natural skin and hair products.

So coconut oil for one kilo cocoa butter
and another one I just combined them.

Yeah it's interesting.

It's a very interesting marketplace.

Okay.

So

with working with this new policy of Etsy,
how do you think it's going to change?

And I'm speaking to the policy of using
suppliers as against manufacturing

the product yourself which I believe
Many sellers were doing anyway.

Dylan Jahraus: Now, yeah, many sellers
were doing this anyway, and they were

actually like drop, drop shipping.

For example, some furniture stores, I
actually know a guy in the UK who was just

drop shipping pre manufactured furniture.

Selling it as handmade, and
that's we don't want to do that.

Now, there are certain areas that
are, Allowed to be, where you can

source products and resell one is
the gift box, gift basket category

where you can source supplies for that
gift box from different suppliers.

You're not hand making anything,
but you're curating it.

So Etsy is really giving.

I would say the power of curation
to sellers now, and it is an art.

It still is a skill.

I would say to put together something
that is cohesive and that can be at the

right price point to convert someone.

Gift baskets, gift boxes, but also.

The traditional supply category, which I
played in, it's like craft supplies where

I was just selling artificial flowers.

So I buy a flower for 30 cents and
I would sell it for 2 and 99 cents.

And then someone in Germany, they
want to pay 20 to ship this thing.

And that's a real story.

And.

That's category.

It's still there, but they're much more
clear on the event occasion holiday

category, which is where you can
basically buy holiday decor and resell it.

And you don't have to do anything to it.

Kunle Campbell: Interesting.

And what do you think the
marketplace would look like?

If you look at eBay and you look
at Amazon say, I'm searching for an

iPhone 12 on Amazon's a singular.

Product listing, and that would have
loads of sellers latched onto it.

While on eBay it's a minefield, you'd
have pages upon pages of different

types of the same product of the
iPhone, whatever 11, if you search

for it so how in Etsy, How's that?

So if GC is.

From a shopper's perspective or user
perspective, do you see repetition

in the listings or does Etsy clean?

It's listings up to to
optimize customer experience.

Dylan Jahraus: Yes
that's a great call out.

With Etsy, it is a little different
than Amazon in this way, because with

Amazon people, even customers, they
say, where did you get your iPhone?

Oh, I got it from Amazon.

If they're not going to say, I got it from
seller, China, one, two, three, whatever

they say, I got it from Amazon with Etsy.

It is very much where you own your brand.

So I don't see Etsy ever getting to a
point where they are combining multiple

suppliers onto one product page and
giving you the option at that point, I

believe, it really comes down to a little
bit of a price war and reviews and.

If it's the same product, the only way
you'd have bad reviews is really, if

you were, doing counterfeit things.

So with Etsy, I don't see them doing that.

But it is something where, yes,
there's going to be people side by

side who have something very similar.

Now it is never a good strategy
Etsy and then try to copy it or do

something very similar because you're
always going to be chasing success.

And that is not a business
model that you want to plan.

Kunle Campbell: Yeah.

Yeah, that is so true.

Chasing success is a business model.

You don't want to follow it's a no.

Cause it would eventually
come back and bite you.

You just never will get there.

We never ever get there.

So hypothetically speaking on
behalf of my audience of the 2x e

commerce audience, 2x as me now,
if, Someone listening now wanted to

get to, to, to Etsy, get into Etsy.

And they have a target that by
about this time next year, they

would be looking at generating a
hundred K per month through Etsy.

How would you map out, how
would you coach them to that?

level, what do they need?

What set of skills do
they need to have now?

And access to capital they need to have
now to get to a hundred K per month

in 12 months or less consistently.

Dylan Jahraus: It's going to take the
longest to get you to 20, 000 a month.

And then once you're at 20, 000
a month, it's really a matter of

pulling levers at that point to
get you to a hundred K per month.

And the constraints in the business are
going to be different at different stages.

So the 20 K to a hundred K,
a lot of times that's people.

Inventory bandwidth, right?

A little bit of marketing spend, but at
that point, your customer in the zero to

20, 000 a month you're getting feedback.

You're trying to learn which products are
going to have the highest order velocity.

Which products also increase
your average order value or

encourage multi item orders, right?

Which customer set you're targeting would
have the strongest LTV within your shop?

Cause you don't want to be
getting to a hundred K months by

acquiring new customers over and
over and being very transactional.

We need to grow this with
a compounding effect.

So what I would say is you need
to pick probably four to five

customers to target in one shop.

Okay.

Not competing customers.

I say like farmers and brides, right?

We don't want to not those in the
same shop, but four to five kind of

complimentary customers, and then we
build our product mix strategically.

So you want to front load with
loss leaders because Etsy's

algorithm works Where you need
a high order velocity happening.

So that's number of transactions or
orders per day in order to rank higher.

And then we wanna also
have products in your shop.

If you're trying to get to a hundred
K months, I would say you need

products in there that are over
a thousand dollars per product.

Yeah.

So it's a balanced product mix.

You might have a loss
leader in there that's $5.

You might have something
that's a thousand dollars.

And a good example, I don't know
if you know of anthropology.

Do you know them?

Kunle Campbell: I know anthropology.

Dylan Jahraus: Yeah.

So they have wedding dresses in
their store and they have, we call

them little like grandma grabbers at
the checkout, lip balms and things

Kunle Campbell: Yeah.

Dylan Jahraus: and their core, candles
that they're known for, they can sell

kitchen utensils and wedding in the same.

That's what you want to
think about your business.

Kunle Campbell: Interesting.

Really interesting.

How much of this requires like supply
chain prowess because it seems like from

a front end perspective if you get a
shopify store, you most definitely have

to get your you know Your products in
order, but what's most important for

success is brand And your ability to
track traffic performance, marketing,

what have you bringing traffic into the
store and then converting with Etsy.

It sounds like that front end in
terms of bringing traffic is sorted

most of the time through SEO.

If you optimize really well for
SEO, you'll get that visibility.

If your listings, optimized,
you get the traffic in.

So how much of your time.

From a percentage standpoint, do you focus
on product curation with an Etsy store,

especially in this trajectory of getting
to the 100 K per month versus marketing,

the products or listing the products.

Dylan Jahraus: Without the product
curation you're going to fall flat

when it comes to building a brand and
you're not going to get to 20 K months.

So that's a bit of a problem.

So you can't just do sales and marketing
without the focus on product curation and

making sure there's product market fit.

You can't even do sales and
marketing if you don't have

product market fit to begin with.

So curating the right product mix and
focusing on a profitable product mix.

And getting your costs down
and building those supplier

relationships, it's going to be so key.

So I'd probably say your first,
three months, it might be 60%,

70 percent on the product side.

30 percent maybe on the
marketing and sales side.

And then that will shift.

Once you have things that are getting
traction, then you can focus on the

marketing and sales and just, pulling
the lever where you have leverage really.

Kunle Campbell: And do I need to make the
products or can I run an Etsy business

by just being a really good buyer?

Dylan Jahraus: Yes.

If you can spot margin opportunity
in something, you can do Etsy.

You don't have to make products.

I have people who are like digital nomads.

They bounce around.

They do Etsy.

They don't ship anything, right?

You definitely don't need to be
shipping anything, making anything,

but I would say you still to be picky
when it comes to what you allow in

the shop, because it's not like a,
an Amazon or, it is, I would say it's

more like Shopify than Amazon because
you still want to curate that brand,

Kunle Campbell: and with, in that
scenario where they're not touching

inventory, are they strictly working
with localized suppliers or would they

still ship from outside the country?

Dylan Jahraus: Yeah.

So let's say you are doing
what's called print on demand.

that would be like using
a production partner.

Now people think of print on demand and
they think printify, printful t shirts.

There's so much more to it than that.

And you could use a production
partner that is more local.

And let's say you have one in the UK.

Who's, more local, they do
embroidery or engraving or something.

And then you have one in the U S you
have one in Canada, and basically they're

all making the same type of product,
but they're local to that market.

So you can find your
own production partners.

And that's sometimes one of the best
ways to have a competitive advantage

because then you can get products
and you have access to opportunities

that printify and printful.

It's not available on their site.

Kunle Campbell: What about non price
and demand, products like, as you

said, like the flowers you did, or
if I was selling mugs or just jewelry

and I had really good suppliers,
would I, should I keep the stock in

it with me or can I have the suppliers
ship and what's the threshold there?

Dylan Jahraus: Yes.

So you have to do some, I would say, very
careful diligence around this because

you need to be able to prove that you
somehow had your hand in the design.

So let's say it's jewelry.

you orchestrated, what the final
outcome is, maybe it's a jewelry

manufacturer, but you had them
create a specific design for you.

They can ship it for you.

It's the same thing of
using a production partner.

It's not on demand, but they are
still your production partner.

And you probably want to
list them in your shop.

Mary from, this factory is the,
Production, person on this product.

So you want to be really transparent.

You don't want to do anything shady.

And I always recommend having
your own packaging or at least

having your hand on the packaging.

Cause the last thing you need is,
using someone in China where the

customer gets it, it's, this ball of
plastic wrapped in duct tape, that's

not a good look, for your brand.

Kunle Campbell: Absolutely.

You need to control that
customer experience.

As you said, I'm going back
to your very first tip.

It's so important.

Okay.

It Makes sense.

And then let's jump into the
listings, the actual, listen,

what is the, what's the anatomy?

What's a breakdown of a
really good Etsy listing page?

Dylan Jahraus: Okay, just cut out.

Kunle Campbell: what is the
anatomy or structure of a really

good Etsy product listing page?

Dylan Jahraus: Yes, so you
want to make sure you are using

all of the listing photos.

So there's 10 photos and a video and you
want to have 10 different types of photos.

We actually have 18 types of photos
that will give you a higher conversion

rate because this is a sales page.

Don't think of it like a product page.

Think of this like a sales page.

You have to convince someone
to buy without getting them

to overthink or overanalyze.

That's really the goal.

So that's what your photos, photos are
really, I would say over 50 percent of

the thing here video, important video.

If you're listing has reviews, you want
to really be showcasing those because

proof in that track record, social proof.

So important to showcase in your
photos, not just under the reviews.

And then I would say your SEO, that's
going to be essential using all text

on all your images, of course, having
all the appropriate tags built into

the backend, but in a description that
is your place to convert someone else.

You need to make sure your
photos are good enough.

To where they don't read the
description and it's enough

information for them to buy.

Okay, so some people don't
click the button that says read

more to read the description.

In a description, you need to
have all these different sections.

You also want to be linking
to other listings, right?

Which is site merchandising, but There's
different sections and you don't want it

to be a just overwhelming text people.

This is, I see this all the time,
especially in the last two, three

years, they're using chat GPT to
come up with these descriptions.

It's like a novel.

No, one's reading that they
think longer is better.

you need concise bullets.

Think of it like a third
grader is reading it.

And if they could be understanding
what you're saying, then that's good.

if a third grader can't understand your
description, you're going to lose them.

Kunle Campbell: Because what I've seen in
on Etsy listings really is the reviews.

Normally you have image, the gallery,
the product, and then under you

have it description of sorts for
Etsy, straight up reviews and yeah.

And then lots of options.

So where is the description
text actually placed?

Is it under the reviews typically or?

Dylan Jahraus: Yeah.

So it'll either be, it depends
on what device you're on.

If you're like on mobile or, web but
it would usually be to the right,

under the pricing and the option.

Sometimes they will put it right
under the picture, but they'll only

show one line of the description.

yeah, Etsy's not really
pushing descriptions.

They're really, you're right, they're
pushing reviews more than descriptions.

Kunle Campbell: so the
optimization is where in just

the title and the alt image text

Dylan Jahraus: No, it's
much, much more than that.

There's so many places in your
shop that you need to have SEO.

So title, all text, that's part of it.

Internally there's tags that
you're putting in as well.

And then on your main shop, there's
also many places on your shop

homepage to be having your SEO.

Now a description, to optimize your
description, you need to have key details.

Materials, care instructions, links
to other listings, social media.

So all of these different sections
there's probably at least half a

dozen that we have in our template
that we give you, but it's essential.

You cannot just put a generic paragraph.

No one like that's going to
be really low conversion.

And what we see is I had this girl
three months and she was making,

she made 444 per conversion rate
was only one and a half percent

after three months of updating this.

She didn't add new products or anything.

It was just updates on
what she had for products.

It was 7, 400 in revenue and a 7.

5 percent conversion rate in
that conversion rate change,

that's what we look for.

Kunle Campbell: And what
was most important thing

she changed on her listing?

Dylan Jahraus: I would say her SEO cause
her traffic did increase significantly

and she got in front of more of the
right people, low conversion rate,

it could be there's friction in the
listing or it could be you're not even

getting in front of the right buyer.

Kunle Campbell: do you ensure you're
getting in front of the right buyer?

Dylan Jahraus: So you can actually look
at your listing stats and see what people

are searching to find your product.

You can also look at if you have any
buyer, what else are they favoriting?

Is that the type of person
you want to go after?

So there's things you can look at.

We always want to look at that on
Etsy and not third party software.

Kunle Campbell: Interesting Okay.

What about categories?

What are your top three categories to
you, you tell your students to jump at?

And what are the top three
categories to avoid in Etsy?

Dylan Jahraus: Let's see.

Oh, it cut out top three
categories to sell on Etsy.

Kunle Campbell: Yeah.

So I've said, what are the top three
categories to you, your advice new

students to get into, and what are the
three top categories you advice against?

Dylan Jahraus: Yeah, how about
I'll start with the ones not to

get into maybe we'll start there.

Number one would be AI wall art, where
it's just either digital or print on

demand, where you're just taking images
from mid journey and throwing them up.

things can start to look
really sloppy really quickly.

wall art, it's not something
that people change out.

Frequently, it's also not
really a giftable product.

So I really wouldn't get into that.

And it's very oversaturated.

So you're not going to see the
margins that you want there.

it's really an uphill battle.

Another thing I would not get
into is print on demand t shirts.

And by that, exclusively doing t shirts.

A lot of people, they see tutorials
on t shirts, but that's how they

make their decision of what to sell
because they saw a tutorial for it.

And that means everyone else
saw that same tutorial and the

margins with t shirts and apparel.

very low.

The third thing I also would not get into.

Oh, this is tricky.

I would say anything
that is a frivolous item.

So anything that if you're just
starting out, if it doesn't help

someone save time, make money, save
money, solve a pain point or bring a

solution and gifting can be a solution.

I wouldn't sell it.

So for example, like a pillow
with a dog on it would not

ever do anything like that.

I would not recommend that.

On the other hand, three
things to get into.

That I would recommend digital products
with a high barrier to entry, where

there's some skill that went into that.

So not just something
mid journey spit out.

This could be spreadsheets
website templates.

anything with utility inventory
tracking systems, things like that.

think about what you use in your business.

Are you tracking your inventory on
a spreadsheet that you put together?

Put that on Etsy.

So that's one digital products with high
utility and a higher barrier to entry.

The second thing would be,
furniture and higher price point

products that are for the home.

I know a lot of people are afraid to
get into large products, but people are

willing to pay more for large products.

They're expecting to pay more.

It's easier to sell, a table for
a thousand dollars compared to a

necklace for a thousand dollars.

People feel like they're getting
more so large and expensive pieces.

And then the third thing I would get
into would probably be the gift box

arena, and this is so consistent year
round because there's gifting seasons

all throughout the year, you could build
really nice, high, consistent income.

And this would be the new
sourced by a seller category

where you are curating these.

Kunle Campbell: So for the gift box,
are we talking about like hampers or are

we talking about customized gift boxes?

What's the configuration
that really works on Etsy?

Dylan Jahraus: Yes, so it would be I would
say an exterior vessel, whether that be

like a cardboard box type of thing, or
maybe something a little more unique,

like a, see through clear bag with a
zipper, and then putting things in it.

That are, for a specific
theme, for a specific customer.

One example would be, a gift
box for people who love reading.

So a book lover gift box.

And you have a mug in there,
you have a bookmark, you have

a pen and a little notepad.

Maybe a candle.

You could do skin care gift boxes.

You could do candle gift boxes, get
well soon gift boxes, things like that.

Kunle Campbell: Okay.

It makes a lot of sense.

Reminds me of subscription
boxes, but these are one offs.

Dylan Jahraus: Yes.

Kunle Campbell: Okay.

And then final question is really CLTV.

We're all about two
things in this podcast.

One's cross functional growth, which is.

synergizing supply chain with
marketing and making sure everything

is in sync, really fits like a glove.

And then the second bit really
is CLTV, maximizing CLTV.

How do you, so my personal story, as
I said earlier, I buy share butter.

I buy cocoa butter and I buy coconut oil.

I make a concoction with it,
which is, I don't use like.

Artificial skincare.

I don't use all the skincare products
with that sort of mishmash and some other

Sort of essential oils mixed into it.

So there is an etsy seller.

I go to I buy them in the kilos So
there's a specific etsy seller I go

to, you know without fail anytime I run
out of stock and essentially i'm their

customer for life So long as they sell
those products, I will continue to buy

it So long as I need to keep my skin my
family's skin healthy nice and healthy.

I'll just buy those products from Etsy.

That's a wonderful, that's probably
the main reason I go to Etsy.

And then off the back of that
what then happens is then I then

impulse purchase, from those visits.

So how do you ensure that customers are
not just one time customers, like the

table I bought, although it's a very high.

probably made the same amount of money
or if not more in comparison to the

chaps I buy, I spend just under 50
pounds, every time I work with them.

So what are your tips for
maximizing customer lifetime

value and what's the trade off?

Would you just say, okay, if you're
selling a very high ticket item,

there's a trade off to be made there
or how would you really play it?

Dylan Jahraus: Yes.

So we do this through a couple of ways.

One is when you have a
transaction, this is your chance.

This is a first date with someone.

You do not want to mess this up, right?

This is your chance to win them for life.

And it's about the experience.

And sometimes it's communication.

That's part of it.

And when I say over communicate, it's
not about a volume of communication.

It's frequency.

Yeah.

So thank you so much for your order.

It just went out.

Hey, it's going to be there tomorrow.

Did you receive it?

I just want to make sure
it got to your doorstep.

There is a frequency as well that
really helps with that experience and

really taking care of your customers
and creating that kind of four

seasons, five star customer experience.

And we look at fancy hotels, fancy
restaurant chains, even things like Chick

fil a it's a, chain in the U S where.

They do anything for the customer.

And so look at great examples of customer
experience and other sectors and other

fields, and then apply that to your shop.

And then once you have that, you
need to get them off of Etsy.

So once you have a transaction, you've
got to get them to your social media.

That's where you nurture those
customer relationships and.

They will become followers and like
true followers of you and your brand.

If you nurture them there, so we nurture
through social media, but you have

to get them there when a transaction
happens and then from social media, you

can drive them to your website, you can
drive them to your email list, you can

drive them anywhere, but driving them
to social media versus an email list,

it's going to be the least friction.

And then it allows you to really
nurture in a more personal way.

So that's a couple of big
recommendations in terms of, the

lifetime value of your customer.

Let's say you bought this table.

How do we make sure that, let's
say I sold you that table.

How do I get you to come back?

What else would you buy?

For that table.

Maybe there's a special oil
or something that you need to

take care of the table with.

maybe there's chairs that go with it
or a collection of bookshelves that

match that tables would green exactly.

Maybe there's tabletop like
a riser for your laptop.

So there's.

Think about how can you serve your
customer for at least four to seven years

and give them everything in one shop.

Kunle Campbell: I like that.

Four to seven years.

Yeah.

Okay.

Super interesting.

And then customer, which brings us
to the question of customer data.

Amazon clearly would not
share, their customers, emails.

And in many cases, even the address, if
it's been fulfilled by Amazon what is

Etsy's policy in regards to customer data?

Dylan Jahraus: You have access to
it all, but you're not supposed

to use it unless they opt in.

So basically you have
access to their emails.

You have access to their
addresses, but you do not own it

unless they opt into something.

So that's why my recommendation is get
your customers to your social media

because you Do have more power there and
then I would give them an opt in there.

So be pushing an opt in on your social
media, either with something like many

chat or just in your stories, right?

Linking something that has, free
value, a checklist or something

that would fit their needs.

That's my recommendation.

Some people take the emails
right from Etsy, but you're

really not supposed to do that.

Kunle Campbell: Interesting.

And what's the methodology for
pushing them to your social how

compliant are they to transition
from Etsy through to socials?

How would you do it?

Dylan Jahraus: Yes, so we have a,
what I call a golden message series

and it works so well, so consistent.

I'm afraid to give it all away, but one
of the big things is luring them into

social media, not with a discount code,
not with, follow us for new products.

No one, they don't care about that.

You want to say, follow us on
social media and I'm going to

share a sneak peek of your order.

They will absolutely be watching.

So you need to give them value
and really call them out.

So every something we do and we teach
is every time you have an order, even

if you're not fulfilling it yourself,
even if it was shipped by someone else,

you put that on your stories and you
say, Sarah, your order is on its way.

I love that.

Kunle Campbell: Very personable.

Dylan, we can go on and on.

I've thoroughly enjoyed it and
I'm glad I had you on the show

to share, your insights on Etsy.

We certainly haven't covered
everything extensively.

I think we've just gotten into the
first principles of what you need

to know to get started with Etsy.

I'm not an Etsy, seller myself.

So people who are listening
to us right now they'll be

interested in finding out more.

And I believe you host a regular webinar
and you also have a training program,

You have a very high value webinar.

Is it free or paid to
get into the webinar?

Dylan Jahraus: It's a free webinar.

Yes.

And we can maybe link it here.

really helps you target profitable
customers on Etsy and shows you how to

really increase your traffic in your sales
in your first 30 days on the platform.

If you are looking at Etsy or maybe you're
already on Etsy and I maintain it is one

of the fastest places to build your brand.

So Definitely check this webinar out.

It gives you a ton of actionable steps
to take that you can try for yourself.

Yes.

Kunle Campbell: link to the webinar.

It'll be the only thing I'll
link to in the show notes.

I'll also link to your LinkedIn.

I've sent you a LinkedIn request.

Dylan it's been an absolute pleasure
having you on the two X eCommerce podcast.

Really appreciate, your insights.

Grateful for you just being
open with with getting on Etti,

I'm actually thinking about or.

Doing something with my wife
because she likes she, she's arty.

So yeah we'll have another
side conversation after this

one, but yeah, thank you.

Thank you so much.

Dylan Jahraus: Thank you for having me.

Great to be here.

Kunle Campbell: All right.

Cheers.

Mhm.

Thank you for tuning into this
episode of the 2X eCommerce podcast.

I hope you found our conversation with
Dylan Jahraus, insightful and inspiring.

If you want to dive deeper into the
topics we discussed today, you can

find the show notes at subscribe.

Dot 2X eCommerce dot com.

Before we wrap up, I have an
exciting announcement for you.

We've refreshed our weekly newsletter
designed to be your go-to resource.

At the intersection of commerce,
healthy living and the mindsets

of actual ordinary leaders.

If you're looking to
stay ahead of the curve.

Get valuable insights and
be inspired every week.

Make sure to subscribe.

Simply visit subscribe dot 2X
eCommerce dot com and sign up.

Don't miss out on this opportunity to
elevate your business and personal growth

until next time folks keep growing.

Keep learning and keep pushing
the boundaries of what's possible.

This is Kunle Campbell signing off cheers.