2X eCommerce Podcast

How to Turn Consumer Neuroscience Insights into eCommerce Growth → Dr. A.K. Pradeep
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Dr. A.K. Pradeep: [00:00:00] eCommerce operators always want to create desire in the mind of their consumer to consider a product or a service.

How do you create desire? That begs the question, what is desire? So through neuroscience we understand that desire Has six dimensions, right? There is, and it's not that hard. It's related to the production of neurotransmitters in our brain. And the framework is trivially simple we call them

mhm.

Dr. A.K. Pradeep: You go back to your eCommerce site, and you say, Can my consumer, who comes in, be done in three steps. If so, you will find that those that quit a process or a transaction halfway and you're scratching your head and wondering why did they leave, you will be able to fix it. You will have consumers walk away completing a transaction.

That is one lesson and a takeaway of a pragmatic [00:01:00] application of neuroscience today.

Mhm.

Dr. A.K. Pradeep: So instead of just glibly saying, I want to target all 25 to 35, advertisers can intelligently ask and request and get a few details that morph that message in real time that allow you to mass personalize based on the person.

That is what I call approach number one, in terms of getting that message to resonate. That's the overt.

Kunle Campbell: So in this episode of the 2X eCommerce Podcast, we dive deep into the power of non-conscious consumer data and Gen AI, and how applying neuroscience can directly grow your e-commerce business.

This is the 2x eCommerce podcast hosted by Kunle Campbell.

Kunle Campbell: Hey everyone. Welcome to another insightful episode of the 2X eCommerce Podcast. Today we're joined by Dr A.K. Pradeep, a pioneering mind in the field of consumer [00:02:00] neuroscience and AI. Is here to break down how understanding your customers non conscious desires can give your eCommerce brand an edge From building instant connections to crafting messages that truly resonate Dr. Pradeep will share practical science backed strategies to boost conversions and grow customer loyalty, touching on everything from mass personalization to eliminating friction in the buying process. So if you're looking to increase the impact of your marketing or just get inside the mind of your customers, this episode is a must listen.

And Hey, if you've not already followed the podcast, take a moment to hit that follow button. On your favorite platform. It helps us bring top tier guests and fresh strategies to help you keep growing. Let's jump right into it.

Mhm.

Kunle Campbell: Hello, Dr. Pradeep, welcome to the 2X eCommerce podcast. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it kunle

[00:03:00] Okay.

Dr. Pradeep's Background and Insights
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Kunle Campbell: I've read your background I've skimmed through your book.

I really love what I'm seeing there, but I would like you to share your background with the audience, particularly how you've pioneered all that you're doing in neuroscience and AI, but let's get back to the precursor to to watch what you're doing today.

Dr. A.K. Pradeep: Lovely. So you want a background.

So where shall I start? Should I start with the day my father met my mother? Maybe that's a little too back. So let me share with you that my, I got a PhD in engineering from Berkeley a long time ago. So the scientist, the G's R and D. And then my first company that I built, a board vantage that was acquired by NASDAQ.

Taught me something very important. It was the world's first board portal to enable boards of directors to do their work at the height of eCommerce and the internet, I [00:04:00] created that and I ran into an extraordinary learning. Boards of directors are extraordinarily accomplished individuals who have achieved a modicum of success and wealth in their lives and therefore they don't Tolerate.

Any bit of nonsense. Zero tolerance for anything that appears a little difficult, anything that appears cumbersome, anything that doesn't work the first time the way it's supposed to. They will leave and they will never come back. So in building something for them, a piece of code or an infrastructure for them, I learned that incredible lesson and it was fascinating.

Whatever it is that boards of directors adopted as, I will never come back to anything that's not perfect. The modern consumer today is like that. That consumer today on a website or an eCommerce portal, if they found anything remotely challenging, a little difficult, not quite [00:05:00] what they thought it needed to be, they will leave and never come back.

So I learned how, the first impressions are the only impressions that matter when I built my company. That was then acquired by a NASDAQ. The second company that I built was Neurofocus because I ran into something interesting when you do focus groups. And people tell you this, and they like this, and they don't like that.

And then you quickly realize, people are probably telling you what they think you want to hear. Not what they really are thinking and feeling about. And that's why many of these so called polls that predict elections, many times go wrong, because people tell you what they think you want to hear. So I said, I don't want to suffer this loss of information.

I want to measure it directly at the brain. So I launched a company that used dense array EEG to measure things directly at people's brains across the world. [00:06:00] That company was subsequently acquired by Nielsen, and I wrote a book on, called The Buying Brain, where learnings from neuroscience. And I built a company, not just by myself, with some of the world's best minds in neuroscience, Professor Bob Knight of the University of California at Berkeley, Eric Kandel, the Nobel Laureate who was on the advisory board, Earl Miller from MIT, amazing, wonderful minds built the company.

I was just, happened to be there. And then I built another company on AI and wrote a book. On AI and its application to marketing and everything. But even then AI a few years ago in 2019 was not the AI of today. So Gen AI showed up with its incredible power. And sometimes it appeared that we were blown away by the power that we felt that whatever we learned the hard way [00:07:00] is no longer needed.

And that is a sort of intellectual arrogance. Which I looked down upon, why? Because neuroscientists, market researchers, consumer psychologists have spent decades doing experiments, learning so many things. And it appeared that a more useful thing to do would be to humbly integrate all of those lessons into Gen AI.

So Gen AI can benefit from all of the work in neuroscience, market research, consumer psychology, all of that. Nobody seemed to be doing that, and therefore we created Sensory. AI. Which really was the integration, I say a humble and scientific integration of all of the lessons of consumer neuroscience into Gen AI so that algorithms can produce things that work, that really work, using [00:08:00] paradigms that have been proven to work.

That was the reason for creating the company, and we also felt at that point, how much of Gen AI is a black box? Nobody knows what went into it, and commercial Gen AI providers don't tell you what went into it. I wrote a book, Neuro AI. For the simple reason, I wrote this book so that the algorithms that are used in the sensory AI platform are described in the book.

I wanted to be transparent, because science is built on peer review and transparency. And it's important, especially as we use the algorithms of neuro AI to do incredible things, be it in all aspects of commerce, that we all know, excuse me, what went into this? What are the neuroscience paradigms you are using?

Every one of the paradigms we are using that is a part of our algorithmic [00:09:00] base is described in the book. You may agree. Or you may disagree, and that's okay, but at least you know what is there. And that is the hallmark, everyone talks of keeping AI safe. You keep AI safe by, by, say erring on the side of transparency.

Let us be a little more transparent, open, and welcome discussion and debate. It's okay for us to disagree, but it's then okay for you to know what went into this. That is the reason for the company, and that is the reason for writing the book as well, The Integration of Neuroscience into Gen AI. It's one extra bit and I will stop there and throw it back to you.

Mhm.

Kunle Campbell: So remember our chat in May earlier this season, Episode 33 with Sam Piliero about scaling from $1 million to $10 million with Google Ads? We talked about the power of maximizing your ad spend. [00:10:00] Now. Imagine supercharging your Google search and shopping ads with reviews. As a Google partner, REVIEWS.io enables you to seamlessly integrate product and company reviews into your ads. Helping you build trust and increase, click through rates. Adding verified reviews to your ads can be a game changer for standing out in any competitive space. One of my personal favorite ways to extend the reach of reviews is through their reputation management feature. This tool helps you distribute reviews to third party platforms like Trustpilot and Facebook, or even Google itself. Whether you want to send all your views to one platform or have reviews, or are you automatically spread them where you need the most visibility? This feature ensures your reviews, are, working harder for your brand. With REVIEWS.io, you can manage [00:11:00] both products. And company reviews in one place, which streamlines your efforts while amplifying your brand's presence. If you're already using reviews, but feel like you're not getting enough, there's a faster way With REVIEWS.io’s Review Booster, you can collect your reviews, not only from new customers, but also from past customers.

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Yeah. It's a lot to unpack . Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's certainly a lot to unpack and thanks for shedding light on, on your background. The two companies you'd built prior to pretty impressive. The NASDAQ one, the board of directors one and the other AI one.

So really interesting. Where I want us to go is I want to give you some context Sure. Of [00:13:00] an average listener of this podcast. And the practicality of what they're about to listen to from you, because you're great mind. You're a great mind. I was really looking forward to this. And this conversation, they are eCommerce operators where, you know and they, that have a range of.

2, 000 to 10, 000 customers, on the database, most of them are doing under 50 million in revenue. How can they leverage neuroscience on the one hand, which is essentially how people think and what makes people take with the Gen I to just leverage their Gen I throughput to, to first of all, make them better sellers, to serve their customers better and then to find.

Sim, more similar customers to, to, to this.

Dr. A.K. Pradeep: Absolutely. What can eCommerce operators do with this exotic thing called neuroscience, with this exotic [00:14:00] thing called GNI, but really make money today, this afternoon.

Practical Applications of Neuroscience
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Dr. A.K. Pradeep: I'll give you three things you can walk away. If you heard nothing from this podcast and you said, my God, I'm going to get value from the first 10 minutes, I'll give you three things you can walk away with that you can make money this afternoon.

How many people, when they visit an eCommerce site, leave without completing a transaction? How many of them browse and just leave? Perhaps a lot. And you say to yourself, what can I do to make sure? That the consumer who went all the way to browsing and maybe picking something walks away feeling completing the transaction because otherwise you don't make money.

Number one neuroscience rule to apply, the rule of threes. Anything that you say, if you tell the consumer, you'll be done in three steps and you're done. Three steps, your transaction is done, you walk out with the basket, you're done. Whether it's putting your credit card in, putting your address in, choosing whatever, you're done in three [00:15:00] steps.

Or even coming into a site. All right, maybe you're choosing furniture, maybe you're choosing a fireplace, maybe you're at a big corporation buying home appliances, right? Three steps and you're done. The rule of threes, the brain loves it. If you say three steps, you'll do it. If you say four, I won't, I will walk away or quit the transaction.

You realize, we divide time into past, present, future. Before, during, after, yesterday, today, tomorrow, and you even have the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, right? What is his obsession with threes? There is numerosity in the brain where it is easy to parse when it is three. When it is more than three, the prefrontal cortex, the big computer needs to be involved and it hates it.

You go back to your eCommerce site, and you say, Can my consumer, who comes in, be done in three steps. If so, you will find that those [00:16:00] that quit a process or a transaction halfway and you're scratching your head and wondering why did they leave, you will be able to fix it. You will have consumers walk away completing a transaction.

That is one lesson and a takeaway of a pragmatic application of neuroscience today. I'll give you the second one. It doesn't matter how much you lusted after the product when you buy it and you put your credit card in and it's going to take money from you to your bank account or your credit card, you're paying.

There's a part of the brain called the insula that fires and you have pain. The very consumer you wanted to delight at your eCommerce website weeps when money leaves their credit card. It doesn't matter what good and how good the product was, they just weep. It's a fundamental question, how do I make my consumer have pleasure at the point of [00:17:00] purchase?

Not just the pleasure of getting what they want, but pleasure at the point of purchase. And the answer is fundamentally simple. An act of charity, at the point of purchase, done by the entity selling. Not the buyer. Don't ask the buyer. Would you like to contribute ten, ten cents to save the whales?

And they will say no. I hate the whales. All right, then they'll walk away. Instead, if you said, on behalf of you, Mr. and Ms. Consumer, I'm donating point zero zero zero one cent to help the victims of the cyclone, or to help the victims of something. That's a small act of charity. at the point of purchase produces pleasure that eliminates the pain of purchase.

So today in your eCommerce site, you ask yourself, my God, do I give my consumer the pleasure of [00:18:00] purchase or do I let them experience the pain? Lesson number two. One more lesson and then we are done with the three free lessons for the day. The third one. Going

Kunle Campbell: by the rule of threes, by the way.

Dr. A.K. Pradeep: Absolutely.

All right. It's called a category busting metric. On your eCommerce site, you probably sell 10, 000 products, right? The consumer's brain looks for a single number that allows it to separate products in a category. So for instance, in the world of cameras, it's megapixels. Whether you like it or not, the consumer says, how many megapixels is that?

They forget almost everything else. Every other improvement. In the world of computers, it's gigahertz. In the world of colas, it's calories. Coke zero is zero calories. Diet Coke is one calorie. By the time you open the can of coke and pour it into a glass and put a few ice cubes and you take it to your [00:19:00] mouth, you've spent that one calorie.

Yet the consumer will say no, I want zero calories. In the world of chocolates is the amount of cacao. I always tell my consumers, your consumer's brain is looking for a single number. If you give it, they will understand it. If not, they will use a number. That number is called price. If you don't want your consumers to compete on price, give them a category busting metric.

So your listeners who are eCommerce operators, at the end of this podcast, they can say to themselves, my God, do I complete my transaction in. Three steps. Am I done there? Have I given my consumer way to experience the pleasure of purchase? And have I given my consumer a category busting metric that allows them to separate things in a category?

There are many more lessons, but these are very pragmatic and things you can [00:20:00] go back your eCommerce site today and say, my God, can I make it out?

Kunle Campbell: Dr. Pradeep, I think we're done with the interview, value, listen, mic drop moment but yeah, we continue. All right. Okay. So I know, thank you so much for bringing those three concepts rule of threes.

Converting pain to pleasure, so doing something to make them feel good at the point of purchase and then just defining a category, burst in metric, which will essentially leverage or sway them off just looking at things from a price perspective, which makes a ton of sense, right?

Leveraging Non-Conscious Consumer Data
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Kunle Campbell: So with consumers seeing thousands of ads every day. Why do you think most brands are failing to make meaningful connections with their audiences?

Dr. A.K. Pradeep: What a good question.

Consumers are seeing thousands of ads, [00:21:00] thousands of messages, and brands fail to connect. Why? 95 percent of consumer decisions are made in the non conscious. 95%. Right. If you do not speak to the non conscious mind of the consumer, when you're speaking to the conscious mind, you're only speaking to the 5 percent that makes decisions.

And that is why brands fail. They speak to the conscious mind of the consumer. How do you speak to the non conscious mind? So you have to understand, what is the data being processed by the non conscious mind of the consumer? So for instance, as I am talking to you, your conscious mind is looking at the words, or is hearing my words, parsing the meaning.

Your non conscious mind is not looking at the words, but is looking at where I pause. Where I laugh, where I seem to think a little [00:22:00] bit, where I struggle a little bit, right? Where I raise my voice, where I lower it. A million variables are passed by a non conscious mind, and it is not just the conscious set of connections that you get.

It's a completely different set of connections. So that begs the question, how does one understand the vast non conscious data? That the human mind parses and consumes. And if you could cleverly construct your messaging and advertising to appeal to the non conscious mind of the consumer, suddenly you would see them welcome you with open arms.

That begs the question, what is the vast lake of non conscious data that you can use to either create the messaging or understand the consumer? There are only three streams of non conscious data. Number one. Music [00:23:00] as you are working and as you maybe some people are listening to this podcast as you're working out, right?

So as you're consciously doing something your brain parses music The vast non conscious mind, the 95 percent of your mind, passes music, right? Music is a powerful input to the non conscious mind. You see how these, how everybody has a set of white headphones on their head, and they're doing, working on a very important PowerPoint.

Which is your conscious mind, the 5%, and the 95 percent is enjoying the music that's coming through. You're not even aware of it. The first input to that non conscious data lake is the vast streams of music and lyrics and words that go with it. Taylor Swifties listen to certain kind of phraseology.

That she knows and she understands. The second input to the non conscious mind, and you can tell me, Kunle, you, you [00:24:00] seem like a young person. Do you watch a TV show on a Thursday at 7 p. m.? And wait for the next Thursday to watch it at 7 again? And will you respect yourself on Friday if you did that?

Today, Everybody watches season 1, all episodes. Season 2, all episodes. Strange things happen when you do that. Phrases, concepts, formalisms, that are processed in working memory, migrate to the non conscious. If I say to you, winter is coming you know that it is not just, I'm not announcing seasons, I'm quoting from the Game of Thrones, right?

So the idea of using the vast, so we have, at Sensory, the world's largest collection of dialogues of binge watch shows from across the planet. that people have taken into their brains, whether you know it or not. These behaviors were accentuated [00:25:00] during the time of COVID where people sat down and watched shows one after the other.

This is what has fed our mind. So you want to do consumer research, you look at the lyrics of songs, you look at the dialogues of binge watched TV shows, you look at the dialogues of movies and therein lie The wants, the needs, the desires, the anxieties, the fears that form the component of the right kind of messaging, the right kind of innovation, the right kind of persuasive approaches to inviting the consumer to consider your product.

Then the consumer says, I feel like you're speaking to some, something in me directly. I really under you, really understand what went into me. And that is the power of using non-conscious data and using the power of the non-conscious [00:26:00] in talking to the consumer. 'cause their decisions 95%. are in the non conscious.

Kunle Campbell: So you're saying you tap into cues, into phrases, into almost popular culture. Yep. That's not just creates affinity. But taps into a specific emotion to a specific frequency. So if you're trying to spark say luxury you pick up, you just, you, you align with something in popular culture or phrases and in popular culture that that, that depicts luxury and then they just get it.

Exactly.

Practical Application of Non-Conscious Messaging
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Kunle Campbell: So do you apply this in your social media, in your communications? Where, what's the practicality?

Dr. A.K. Pradeep: Practical application is every message an eCommerce operator puts out on their site or their products or their social or whatever it is that It's a consumer touch point. You have [00:27:00] one millisecond for the consumer to look at it and connect with it and find relevancy and meaning in it.

In that one millisecond, you don't have the time to give a paragraph of a reason to believe, right? That is the great disaster in most corporations and manufacturers and suppliers, this ubiquitous thing called reasons to believe. All right? Our consumers looking for a reason to connect, they just want to connect and find that moment of extreme relevance and connection.

And so this is what you use. If you're an eCommerce operator, all of the messaging on your site is based on messaging from the non conscious. Then the consumer's brain connects with you immediately, right? It's a very powerful way.

The Pitfalls of Mining Social Media
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Dr. A.K. Pradeep: I never advocate mining social media. I don't. To me, what people say on social [00:28:00] media is usually for the consumption of other people.

They're not really saying what they think. They are projecting a persona of themselves and are selectively saying things and doing things that build their persona on social media. It's never really revealing who they are. So it is what I call exquisite mining in the wrong places. Don't look for water in a desert.

You're not gonna find it. So we look at messaging that is crafted from the non conscious.

Understanding and Creating Desire
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Dr. A.K. Pradeep: There is one other thing that I talk about in the book, and that is the notion of desire. eCommerce operators like your listeners always want to create desire in the mind of their consumer to Consider a project, or to consider a product or a service.

How do you create desire? That begs the question, what is desire? So through neuroscience we understand that desire Has six dimensions, [00:29:00] right? There is, and it's not that hard. It's related to the production of neurotransmitters in our brain. And the framework is trivially simple, right? We call them dopamine moments.

The desire for Russian excitement. Everybody has that. People standing in front of an apple store looking for that on launch day. And there's serotonin moments, the desire for familiarity and comfort like a soup on a cold day, a sweater you've worn for a little while. That's comforting.

And we do desire that as well. And the notion of desire for trust. In an uncertain world, you do a podcast and you want to get people that have reputations, so your clients and listeners trust the voices and the opinions that come across. Trust is important. We call them oxytocin moments. So it is a rush of novelty, familiarity and comfort, trust, and then you have [00:30:00] cognitive fluency.

It must be easy. If anything that I'm saying is goofy with brain part this and brain part why, your listeners will give up in five minutes saying, my God, I don't know what to do with it. It must be easy. Cognitive fluency. Then there's the notion of tribalism. And I see you talk about that. You want this to be relevant to a sense of belonging to people who listen to you, retailers, eCommerce, site operators.

The sense of belonging, it pertains to my community and me, right? And the last element of desire is the notion of self worth. Did you feel wonderful? That you knew something and you felt a little more enlightened today as a result of this podcast and this interview than you did yesterday? Those are the elements of desire.

If on your eCommerce sites, every line, if you have created the desire, [00:31:00] people will come there, they will stay there, they will buy more, pay a premium, and buy faster, and your basket size will increase. That's really what you want your consumer to do as an eCommerce operator. So using the desire framework and crafting every piece of messaging, every image to work with it is powerful.

So what at Sensory, our algorithms automatically score every copy, every piece, sentence and image on the scale of desire, rank them. And for anything that is performing poorly. Automatically rewrite them. So technology, the neuroscience powered Gen AI has come this long away where you are able to evaluate and quanti, quantify the amount that desire created.

And also be [00:32:00] able to rewrite and create the desire you want. These things can immediately accelerate the scale of commerce on an eCommerce site.

Kunle Campbell: Really interesting. Do you want to give an example of how like major brands, like maybe Nike or Unilever are essentially using non conscious consumer data to really cut through the noise?

Dr. A.K. Pradeep: Yeah. Most of my clients, they're all the usual gang of big corporations that have global brands and almost every one of them is very cautious about what we call consumer data.

They don't want to take anything that consumers write and look through them, et cetera. So instead of looking at the outputs. Of human beings in social media where one, the data is questionable, two, the data is private [00:33:00] and you run into regulations one way or the other. So a lot of the large corporations said, listen, why are we wasting our time looking at one data that is private?

Two, data that is a bit questionable because it is a persona, projected avatar and persona of a person that is not truly who they are. Instead of looking at the outputs of human beings that are private and questionable, why not look at the things that people enjoy and consume? When we understand the important things that people enjoy and consume, that literally goes into making who they are.

We get a better understanding of who they are, what they need, and what they struggle with. And therefore our innovations, our messaging, can speak in a powerful way. Without violating privacy, without violating any regulatory guidelines, and at the same [00:34:00] time, get at the core truth of what made us. Look at great chefs in restaurants.

They always make a claim that, it's not our recipe that is particularly great. We choose the best ingredients. That is to say, in creating a product or a message. Choosing the ingredients that went into making the message is very important. And we believe the ingredients that form the non conscious makeup of the human mind become the best ingredients because that's where consumer decisions are.

So the big corporations generally Prefer to use not this vast amounts of social data, but rather the non conscious data that consumers consume on a daily basis. And those become the building blocks of innovations and product messaging.

Kunle Campbell: Yeah. Okay. Okay. So these [00:35:00] building blocks the. We talk about the non conscious, the non conscious mind, there's the individual non conscious mind. And then at scale, there's, there's some, how scalable is the non conscious mind in the sense of emotions?

How do brands determine what emotions they want to trigger so that their messaging is really scalable, in a way, because it's easy for me to have this conversation with you and understand your desire. But if I'm speaking to a market. If I'm running ads and speaking to a million people through ads on a daily basis, I know there's always testing methodologies and that's how you find it, but how do you get closer to the mark with this methodology?

Mass Personalization at Scale
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Dr. A.K. Pradeep: There are two parts to this, and in the world of neuroscience, 5G and AI, we get to something that [00:36:00] I call mass personalization. So we generally think of mass communication as, one ad fits all, and we know it never works, right? Never works. But today, the way things happen, it is mass personalization.

How do I personalize to you? And how can I make it a little different for me? Do I have to change everything? Not really. Just a few things changed alone would work. Or even a demography. Of somebody, right? So for example, my algorithms create perfumes, right? And you could create perfumes for focused on the fans of Taylor Swift if you wanted to, by looking at things that go into what is a swifty, right?

If you, if I may call them that. And you could take that and figure it out. Now, coming back to. How do you create mass personalization? It is by understanding and one of the building blocks in my company that I talk about in the book is what we call memory structures, right? What are memory [00:37:00] structures?

I may not have been to your home. Kunle, but Ahime I know probably your home has, maybe a kitchen, maybe a dining room, and maybe a bathroom, at minimum, right? It's a fair assumption. There's an architecture of a home that has some things in common. Similarly, the architecture of human memory.

also has similar structures. There is episodic memory, procedural memory, temporal memory, we all have. And so for a given group, you very quickly find that there are, events, there are rituals, there are occasions, there are locations that are meaningful. Once you find out for a given consumer demography, what those occasions, locations, times of day, rituals, et cetera, are meaningful, you gently include those things as part of the messaging to that particular audience.

So for instance, if you are in the UK, maybe some [00:38:00] mention of places and times and maybe tea time in the afternoon in the UK will be very important to you. Or, if I am in the U. S. and you talk about my morning Starbucks coffee on my way to work, that may be a little important to me. It's just a different beverage in a different time, but suddenly that message seems to speak to you versus a different beverage in a different time may speak to me.

Figuring out the memory structures allows you to create What I call mass personalization at scale. So you don't have to go back to the old days of I'm going to create one thing and it better appeal to everybody. No, I don't want that. I want messages crafted for me to speak to me, to who I am. And messages crafted for you to speak to you.

That is in a way, [00:39:00] we want to eliminate the collodionism in messaging. The old colonialism was, Hey, everything is made here and it was spread across the rest of the world. And it should just be fine. It should be, it should work for everybody. And we said, no, that's not how it's going to work, right?

We're going to be recognized for who we are individually. And if you really care about working with me, and this is particular, particularly true for your eCommerce operators, many times than not, you may know your consumer. They may have a membership with you. They may have a login and ID with you.

You may know something about them. If you knew something about them, why shouldn't you? Your product descriptions for them and the way you talk to them change for them be designed for them. So the power of neuroscience and Gen AI is the ability to create mass Personalization [00:40:00] scale. Where is it first evident in your target listeners, eCommerce operators, everyone is capable of creating mass personalization at scale.

And when I say mass personalization, for that. individual consumer, not even a demography, that particular consumer. So today, what do you do when a consumer comes back? You say Dr. Pradeep, welcome back. That's about it. Can you do a little better than that? Can everything you talk to me about what I should buy, how I should buy, when I should buy, what price I should pay, can it all be tailored for me?

So it's possible today with neuroscience powered Gen AI, and it's particularly first evident in your listener group, the eCommerce operators, they can do that. Retailers can do that.

Integrating Non-Conscious Data into Marketing
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Kunle Campbell: So like most of our [00:41:00] listeners are spending 60 to 70 percent of their marketing budgets on meta ads. How can you integrate mass personalization into like their meta ad strategy?

I know there's on one. One of the solutions your company, offers is like this PDP GPT which makes a lot of sense on site experience for advertising. How'd you yeah, get integrated into advertising.

Dr. A.K. Pradeep: So there is what you call the overt and the covert. The overt objectives are, I want to get an ad out in this tonality.

Now you say, if I know a little bit about the consumer, your age and your gender, and maybe a little bit of a preference, a message can morph in real time to accommodate age, gender. And also any little bit about that consumer demography that a meta can provide to you. So instead of just glibly saying, I want to target all 25 to 35, [00:42:00] advertisers can intelligently ask and request and get a few details that morph that message in real time that allow you to mass personalize based on the person.

That is what I call approach number one, in terms of getting that message to resonate. That's the overt. That's the covert. Covert is where maybe Pepsi says, Hey, I want to talk to the Coke consumer, or Coke says, I want to talk to the Pepsi consumer. That is to say, you may want to advertise a low price.

You may want to say, my price is better than anybody else. You may want to say, if you have been working with my competition, can I steal you for one product? There may be a number of interesting objectives of a marketing campaign. Now, can one piece of message, buy my product, suddenly morph based on your covert objective?

Instead of buy my product, you may say, why don't you upgrade from [00:43:00] whatever product you've been having to this beautiful new one that I've made for you. So the idea of a covert objective, a commercial objective, factoring in to an ad. So if a meta ad is for a, for Coca Cola is going to go on to somebody who is a Pepsi consumer, right?

Or they talk about how they like Pepsi or whatever, and you want to steal the consumer or you want to advertise to the consumer and ask them to consider Coca Cola or vice versa, right? The kind of ad you use can morph in real time. We use neuroscience for every one of those covert activities of how do I showcase without overtly saying it, how do I say, consider me instead of my competition, right?

My prices are better than anybody else's. This fits better into your ecosystem than anybody else does. Saying all those what I call commercially important things in the same [00:44:00] message of an ad, but morphing it to the demography or the particularities of the given consumer, is something that our PDPGPT does today.

So when your eCommerce operators want to advertise on any one of their sites, intelligent use of these engines in real time can morph And make the ad and the spend you're doing go 10 times longer because it speaks to that consumer and aligns with your commercial object.

Leveraging Sensory.AI Solutions
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Kunle Campbell: Mason I also want to clarify something.

So I'm on sensory AI sense sensor. Yeah. S-E-N-S-O-R-I. sensory.AI. sensory.AI. And I'm on the solutions section. And you have a ton of G gpt. PD, P add desire, music messaging. Yep. Flavor, packaging. So is, do you sell this? Do you sell [00:45:00] these gpt? Do you license this G pt? Yeah, the platform is licensed,

Dr. A.K. Pradeep: right?

The platform is licensed, so it's sometimes people buy or license the platform and use it. Sometimes people use the platform as a service. That is to say, they say, Hey, I want to do this, but I don't have the time to go, use the platform. Can you use, can you leverage the platform and provide it as a service?

So we licensed the platform. We also sell the platform as a service.

Kunle Campbell: And does this sit on a, On open AI engine or we

Dr. A.K. Pradeep: use a number of Gen AI engines underneath. So the way you think about it, it is neuroscience consumer understanding. All of those are front ended and we use any of the necessary Gen AI engines to do some of the nitty gritty of the work.

And provide the bulk of it.

Kunle Campbell: Okay. And is it self serve or do you have an agency behind you?

Dr. A.K. Pradeep: No, we are a company that is entirely self serve. There is no other agency behind, [00:46:00] but we ourselves provide, as I said, both the platform and the service that goes with it.

Kunle Campbell: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Makes sense.

Makes a lot of sense. I just wanted to clarify. So for listeners of this, if you do go to the website sensory. AI, you will see under the solutions tab, lots of GPTs that, that can potentially help your brands and you can reach out to Dr. Pradeep to see how, they can essentially bolster your brand with their brand GPT.

Or also your PDP with their, PDP, GPT, very interesting to to get your feedback. Okay.

Final Thoughts and Practical Steps
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Kunle Campbell: On a final note for eCommerce brand doing under say 50 million in revenue, what's one practical step they can take today to start integrating non conscious data into their marketing?

Dr. A.K. Pradeep: I think the first step would be to perhaps reach out to us because we have the world's largest stores of non conscious data collected on a weekly basis.

So you, [00:47:00] whether your product works in Thailand or in China or in Japan or in the UK and you have global things, this is, we have the world's largest reserves of non conscious data and nobody has it. So please don't try to collect it. You'll be wasting your time. If there is one thing they can and should think about and use, and whether they use our company or not however you want to think about it, please consider desire that we talk about, right?

There is so much boring content on the web and on eCommerce sites that turns off consumers. Please. Use desire. Use the rule of threes that I talked about to you. All right. Find that category busting metric that will work for you. And you will suddenly find. A lot of things happen. Of course, we work with companies to spiff up every aspect of it to result in commas.

But if you said, listen, I want to do this myself. Get a copy of the book, and [00:48:00] you sit down and you do a little bit of thinking. You'll be self sufficient. You don't need anybody. You don't need a platform. You could get most of it done. Of course, we are always there. We always welcome business, who does not?

We'd be happy to work with anyone that wants to move the ball forward. But if you want to be self reliant, get a copy of the book. And if you just did these three, the rule of three is a category busting metric and creating desire. You'll be a good chunk on the way to generating real dollars. It is, what I'm talking about is not things that will yield fruit someday.

I'm talking of yielding fruit later this afternoon.

Kunle Campbell: Okay. So folks, first of all, thank you, Dr. Pradeep for just sharing, just being so benevolent with your knowledge and wisdom here with neuroscience and and Gen AI or an AI in general. For those of you listening.

His book is Neuro AI, Winning the Mind of Consumers with [00:49:00] Neuroscience Powered Gen AI. It's a first edition. It's out on all major places. You get your books and I'm looking at it on Amazon now. You can get it on Amazon or just go head over to the website, sensory. AI. I'll link to it in the show notes. Dr.

Pradeep, it's been an absolute pleasure having you and thank you for coming on the 2X eCommerce podcast.

Dr. A.K. Pradeep: My pleasure. And I wish all of your listeners great luck in growing your business. And I see the book eCommerce growth strategy. They should buy that one as well and go with it. Thank you so much.

Kunle Campbell: Cheers. Cheers.

Mhm.

Kunle Campbell: Thank you for tuning into this episode of the 2X eCommerce podcast. I hope you found our conversation with Dr. AK Pradeep enlightening and full of ideas and insights to bring neuroscience into your eCommerce strategy. Dr. Pradeep shared how non conscious cues, desired based marketing and personalized [00:50:00] messages can directly impact sales and deepen customer loyalty.

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Until the next time folks, thank you for listening