2X eCommerce Podcast

Vicky: 00:00

Is a mother that had reached out with a 14 year old child that was literally suicidal until she saw a Dapper Boy video ad and felt like she belonged on this earth. And the mother was thanking us that we existed. And so we always remember our why and that we're changing people's lives. Yeah. So our biggest concern when doing these preorder launches was creating urgency with our customers.

Vicky: 00:27

So it was, like, a combination of FOMO, urgency, and loyalty. So what we would do is, let's say, you know, bringing it to 2021 now is, like, our best year. Yeah. Shark Tank was 2022. Yeah.

Vicky: 00:41

It was an intense one. So this is where actually things get a little bit crazy, and and this is super vulnerable times here that we experience.

Kunle: 00:51

So on today's episode, you're going to hear about an incredible story about this gender inclusive brand called Dapper Boy. It's a great episode you don't wanna miss, so do stay tuned. Hosted by Kunle Campbell. So welcome to the 2xecommerce podcast show. I'm your host, Kunle Campbell, and this is a podcast dedicated to rapid growth in online retail.

Kunle: 01:17

Today's interview is, one I have with Vicky Pache. She is the founder of a of an all gender inclusive apparel brand called Dapper Boy. She has a phenomenal story, I have to say. She went through personal challenges finding, essentially, clothes that would suit her, and she she had pain points. And she decided to solve the problem rather than complain.

Kunle: 01:46

She solved the problem by actually starting this apparel brand. She started out from a Kickstarter campaign, and that went well. And she used the traction on there to go d to c. She didn't want to use the kick starter campaign over and over again. She went d to c, which is direct to consumer.

Kunle: 02:05

People don't know. So she went direct to consumer, and she then used presales presales strategy in the direct to consumer model to to essentially sell more. But the core thing you're gonna list you're gonna learn from this episode is the use of community. So from the get go, she'd been tapping into the LGBT community, and she was able to to essentially use that to grow the brand. And my takeaway, essentially, and I said this in the interview, is more or less, if you're struggling now, you need to find community one community initially that will essentially align and resonate with your brand values and essentially use that to build and cohesure community.

Kunle: 02:55

Because you you build community from community, and that's what she did. So she built this dapper boy community of people who were, like, extra patient and loving of the brand. They were waiting 6 to 8, 9 weeks for products to to actually ship through the, you know, pre order model. So with all of that, she's been able to build it. Should we also talk about investments?

Kunle: 03:19

She's used the various investment platforms. She's been on Shark Tank for her brand. And now she has an she's going on she's going through a round now, an investment round, a fundraising round. She has a lead investor. It's it's it's an interesting you know, who's who's had, like, a bootstrapping mindset to to actually build in something bigger than her, using investors to really scale this up further.

Kunle: 03:43

So why should you listen to this podcast? Why I think you should listen to this podcast is you're gonna learn about community building. You're going to learn about how to use presale strategy to essentially grow your brand, and you're going to learn about networking to towards capital raising should you need it in the future. So brace yourself. Enjoy this episode.

Kunle: 04:03

But before I let you go, if you're listening to this on any platform, whatever, whatsoever, there must be a follow button. Hit that follow button to essentially increase our reach so more people listen to this podcast, and I'm able to bring much bigger and bigger guests on this podcast. So I shall leave you for now. It's a great episode. She's very affable, and the journey and story in of itself was really impressed me.

Kunle: 04:30

So enjoy, folks. And, yeah, catch you on the other side. Hey, Vicky. Welcome to the 2 x ecommerce podcast. I've been looking forward to to hearing about the Dapper Boys story for weeks because, yeah, it was scheduled weeks before.

Kunle: 04:44

So it's a warm welcome.

Vicky: 04:46

Thank you so much. I am so excited truly to be here.

Kunle: 04:50

Fantastic. So yours is a very incredible story. You've gone through peaks and troughs, and I would very much like to hear from the horse's mouth. Some people heard about your story in the intro, but I think, you know, you telling the story now, your story thus far would be great to hear.

Vicky: 05:11

Yeah. Sure. So Dapper Boy started back in 2015. It was due to my own personal journey shopping in the men's department. Prior to that, my whole life, it's just so funny because if you were to ask my friends from high school if Vicki would ever start a fashion brand, they would probably just be beside themselves because I hated shopping.

Vicky: 05:34

I shopping in the women's department, my whole life was a terrible experience. I never loved those styles. I always felt frumpy, unseen, not confident. And it wasn't until I moved out. I'm from upstate New York originally and moved to San Diego after college, and I was looking for anything in marketing in particular.

Vicky: 05:54

And I got a job at a casino and moved my way up through the company quickly where I had to wear suits at one point. And, again, it was just not the vibe for me. Once I, like, came out of the closet, eventually, I chopped my hair, I was ready to shop in the men's department. But, again, I remember the very first time I tried on a pair of men's jeans. Actually, it's the very first product I tried on.

Vicky: 06:19

It was everything to me. It was exactly what I wanted it to be. It was that confidence. But I realized down the line that the men's clothing really just never fit my body in the first place. So that was in in that time frame.

Vicky: 06:31

Again, I cared so much about my look, my feel, like, all of that. And I was going out with confidence and dating and being out with this world, and it was exciting times. But those clothes never fit my body. And years later, 2,000 14, actually, is when I decided to do something about it. My wife and I were talking about the ill fitting suits, and we were going to start a suit company, believe it

Kunle: 06:55

or not.

Vicky: 06:55

Our very first logo has a bow tie in it. But shortly after, there was other

Kunle: 06:57

lesbian owned companies coming out at that time

Vicky: 06:57

with suits. And I realized I did not wanna compete with them at that time with Suits. And I realized I did not wanna compete with them at that time, and I remember my very first product, which was jeans. And that's how we began. We launched a Kickstarter campaign with jeans.

Kunle: 07:15

Okay. There's a lot to unpick from there. First of all, why did you why did you leave New York for San Diego? Was there was it for You? Let me ask you from there.

Vicky: 07:24

Sure. Yeah. So I went to school up in Blackford State University in New York. And Okay. We us upstaters were very scared of New York City.

Vicky: 07:34

And so, like, I knew I didn't wanna stay in upstate. I was too nervous to go to the city. I have family in San Diego, and we would always visit almost once a year. And so my aunt and uncle were like, come out here for just the summer. Take your time, and then you can go back to New York and start your career.

Vicky: 07:51

And I never left. I just love San Diego so much.

Kunle: 07:55

The weather for 1. The weather

Vicky: 07:56

for 1.

Kunle: 07:56

Yeah. It's it is it is what it is. Okay. So now let's fast forward to the Kickstarter campaign. It takes a lot of skill.

Kunle: 08:05

Was it successful, your first Kickstarter campaign?

Vicky: 08:09

Our goal is to raise 18,000, and we end up surpassing it, raising 26,000.

Kunle: 08:14

Okay. Let's break down how the the how in in the Kickstarter campaign. Did you lean on any help? Did you do it yourself? How to how what was the video?

Kunle: 08:24

What was the story? What's the ask? And how did you because that's where you started building community. I can imagine.

Vicky: 08:29

Yep. That was, the very beginning. That was a pivotal time. So, again, not know having the fashion background, we literally had 2 samples to work with. And we backtracking a little bit further than that is how do you find a manufacturer when you have no fashion background.

Vicky: 08:46

And so we had been hung up on I can't even tell you how many times people were like, you don't even know what you're talking about. And I'm like, I have this idea of literally blending the two worlds of men's and women's clothing here. Women's clothing is not functional. They don't have deep pockets. Like, still today, it's crazy that it's revolutionary to have deep pockets.

Vicky: 09:05

So those are the things. When finally one manufacturer that we reached out to was like, I think you guys are on to something. Hook this up with their pattern maker, and we went through 6 months of samples. We had all of our friends in these two sizes try them on and until they were perfect. And then we were off to the races.

Vicky: 09:23

So when it came to Kickstarter in particular, we did a lot of research online. And I know that there is one article in particular by Tim Ferris on how to launch I think it was, like, a $100,000 on a Kickstarter. And so I took a lot of those pieces of just, like, being viral in the smallest way. But we had originally, before even launching the campaign, just pumping it up to friends and family first and then eventually to our community just locally here in San Diego.

Kunle: 09:51

Mhmm.

Vicky: 09:51

We would utilize the models that we're trying on our stuff. We had built the list. We had gone on Twitter and found anybody writing articles about gender neutral fashion in particular and just hitting them up. Hey. We're launching.

Vicky: 10:03

And, actually, one thing that really helped, and this was huge for us, is we we did almost this, like, flash mob post. And so before launching the campaign, we had at least a 100 people sign up that they would go ahead and write a prewritten post that we had written with a video and just say, hey. On this date, at this time, we're all gonna launch at the same exact time. And we were getting traction quickly. Imagine not having this knowing this world at all and doing raising $10 within 10 days.

Vicky: 10:31

So we were, like, getting excited that this is really this is really gonna happen for us. So that was the beginning.

Kunle: 10:37

That's incredible. That's incredible. So the money comes in. Now you need to deliver the goods. How did you fare fare with us with the delivery, and how long do you take?

Vicky: 10:46

I will never forget this time frame. So we had again, my wife and I started this brand, and she was working full time. I was at this point doing casino consulting on the as a side gig. And so I was, like, still traveling to casinos and being essentially a branch of their marketing team. And we had moved from a 4 bedroom townhouse to this 1 bedroom, 630 square foot shack just to make this dream happen here.

Kunle: 11:12

That's

Vicky: 11:12

true. Because we were all in. And I remember getting the first batch of jeans and not knowing what I didn't know and, like, literally having 8 and a half by 11 pieces of paper and cutting out these labels and taping them on and all of that, going down these staircase, going to the PS store to ship off these huge boxes, which were heavy. I, again, didn't know. And the thing was is we had sold out of that production.

Vicky: 11:36

It was like 300 pairs of jeans is what we were going for. But I should have raised more because once we were out, what we're going to do next? We're out of capital. We had to figure out how to stay afloat. So 1 year had gone by, and we're like, should we even do this anymore?

Vicky: 11:53

What's gonna happen next? What people a lot of people actually don't know is we were also working on our very first button up the same time we were launching Jeans. And what's really unique about that is that we also we had these hidden snaps, which is like our it's our thing here is having these hidden snaps behind the chest pocket to prevent chest gap, which is such a huge thing. And so we were like, okay. I think this is gonna be a noisemaker product.

Vicky: 12:17

We wanna invest in more jeans. How do we continue on? Do we launch another Kickstarter campaign? As much as we loved that being able to do that, we didn't wanna do that process again with the reward and stuff like that. We wanted to move everything to our own website.

Vicky: 12:33

So what we end up doing is moving all to our Shopify store. And what we would do is and this is how we've been doing it, bootstrap this brand for years, is we would again, samples. This very first button up shirt was the first product that we launched on our Shopify store. We would do a photoshoot again with our friends just on our iPhones, put out these videos that immediately hit the problem. Do you ever have this problem?

Vicky: 12:58

And it's showing that chest gap. What about this where that prod I used to wear my button ups down to my chest and leave it open like it was a style because it couldn't fit around my butt. This is a big problem. It was a problem for so many people. So we were really hitting people with the problem just to start, just to resonate with us.

Vicky: 13:16

And then I think we just had this likability too. We're not pushing any kind of political agenda. We're just people having fun being confident together, and people were just sharing it like crazy. So this video, this one video, this button up was going viral back then. It was, like, 100 of thousands of views.

Vicky: 13:34

And we had sold it was, like, $30,000 within 3 weeks. Mhmm. And imagine not, again, not having any sales for pretty much a year after selling out of jeans. And we were like, okay. This is how we keep going.

Vicky: 13:46

And because at that time, again, we were going to banks saying, hey. We were looking for capital, and we were getting denied. We don't have enough sales. So we were like, okay. This is how we have to get craft crafty and continue bootstrapping the brand.

Vicky: 13:59

At this point, we were just getting different colors with colorways with jeans and for these button ups and just launching every month or every other month at this point and just constantly selling out until at 1 point 2021. Now fast forward, we were launching every week new products and constantly just selling out.

Kunle: 14:17

So you just rolled it over and rolled it over product by product knowing what works. Question on the viral video, what handle did you share it from? Was it your personal handle or, your the official Dapper Boy? And was Dapper Boy then? Was it known as Dapper Boy then, or did you have to change your your brand name eventually?

Vicky: 14:36

It was always Dapper Boy. Always Dapper Boy. And then we've always shared it from Dapper Boy. And, of course, we would still do that same kind of that flash mob model again in the very early launches of being, like, friends and family and now all the Kickstarter community members. Like, you're part of something huge here.

Vicky: 14:52

Please share these posts. So we are constantly and I think for us too is we were not shy to be in people's faces. I know in the beginning, I heard hear this from a lot of early founders is, oh, I don't wanna email too much or hit people too much. But we were just not afraid of that. We were constantly out there, constantly posting, constantly emailing people.

Kunle: 15:14

Yeah. What I've picked up from what you said thus far is the it's intrinsic in your DNA to be very community first as a brand, and you've done it from day naught, from day 0. Even when you're the flash mob thing, you still tapped into the San Diego community to to help you, family and friends, community, to that core. There's always that core in community, and then it's to expand, and you're just continuously focused on that. It reminds me of Gymshark.

Kunle: 15:42

When Gymsharks are still now, they were focused on essentially strength and so body builders and power lifters, the communities, and because they had their attention through the other influencers in in there, they're not afraid to keep posting and keep emailing. And it's it's I see parallels here. So with within so so how would you describe your community? Who is What's a typical avatar of the dapper boy community?

Vicky: 16:13

Yeah. So these women were coming to us with the same exact problem with the chest gap and all that too. And at that time, we were marketing as a androgynous clothing brand. But, really, things were starting to change quickly with all these different customers coming to us relating to the problem. So we've really morphed WeChat from gender neutral to all gender because our goal is to be this mainstream brand, and it's important to do that.

Vicky: 16:38

But it's important to be seen and to feel like you belong. And I think, in particular, and it it it even is today, is that I think men in general are not used to hearing things like inclusive. I think

Kunle: 16:50

Mhmm.

Vicky: 16:51

The word gender can be very trigger like, triggering for people. We had we've really morphed consistently here throughout the years androgynous to gender neutral to genderless to non binary. But I think also, I don't know if the world is ready for that. I think they automatically assume the words non binary are immediately LGBTQ community, and some people are just not ready for that. We've moved to all gender to be truly welcoming for all people.

Vicky: 17:19

And, again, it's about belonging. It's not even about fitting in. And we have customers. Again, we've had parents reach out to us. And one particular story I share all the time is a mother that had reached out with a 14 year old child that was literally suicidal until she saw a Dapper Boy video ad and felt like she belonged on this earth.

Vicky: 17:41

And the mother was thanking us that we existed. And so, like, we always remember our why and that we're changing people's lives. They're able to get jobs they never thought they could get because of this newfound confidence that they don't they actually belong.

Kunle: 17:56

That that's that meaning and and why is is so fundamental in in longevity in longevity of a brand. And I those anecdotes or stories of the brand being very intrinsic in the growth of your customers' lives, It's what will get you up in the morning every day despite the days being bad or good or ugly. You will turn up because you're helping. So super super interesting stuff here. So so how did you continue could you explain the product launch process?

Kunle: 18:32

So you explained the first one Mhmm. The jeans, the topless. In fact, with the topless, just for people who are not aware, when you talk about the bust, the shirt issue, it's really because females have a bust, and many shirts for men are designed for chest, for a standard chest. And so it just opens up, and it's particularly the the bottoms. Am I right in saying that?

Kunle: 18:51

Or

Vicky: 18:52

Yes. Definitely. We found it with men, though, too, that have a broad chest. It just automatically just spreads in that region. There's this big open space, like Superman ready to just rip it off.

Vicky: 19:02

Yeah. It's a game changer, those snaps.

Kunle: 19:04

Yeah. Especially when you're a medium size and when when you're you're medium or you're large at

Vicky: 19:10

the top. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Vicky: 19:13

100%.

Kunle: 19:14

Okay. So how did you go about the product launches? Because now, I'm I'm sure I don't know how many SKUs you have. You have a ton of SKUs. What was the methodology?

Kunle: 19:25

Surely, there must have been eventually a system and process to towards, like, launching products.

Vicky: 19:32

Yeah. So our biggest concern when doing these preorder launches was creating urgency with our customers. So it was like a combination of FOMO, urgency, and loyalty. So what we would do is, let's say, bringing it to 2021 now is, like, our best year. I think we did $1,200,000, and we had a I remember our best month being a 185 k, and we launched 4 different products that week.

Vicky: 19:57

But each week was, like, 3 to 5 different colorways. And so what we would do is, 1, let's say it's 4 different button up shirts, different colors. We would say, hey, everybody. We have only 300 in each color. We're gonna offer it at up to 30% off, and you have 3 weeks only to get in on this price.

Vicky: 20:17

And we would sell out because, again, people knew that they couldn't find a fit like this. They knew that we were always selling out of products, and so they would get in on the campaign that first day. So we would launch to VIP customers the day before everybody else. Then there's a general launch. Typically, VIPs was Thursday and general was Friday.

Vicky: 20:38

And then we would constantly be reminding people, hey. We're counting down. Okay. There's 2 weeks left, 1 week left. So it was just a very it's like a focused effort on each one of those products.

Vicky: 20:48

And then when we would launch, like, the following week, we would say, okay. Let's do jeans. So it was always a complimentary, like, look, like, this build up of this, like, perfect outfit by the end of the month. But, again, like, that FOMO was real, and people were getting in on it, and that's how we would sell out. But, again, like, during this time, production is not a quick thing.

Vicky: 21:08

So it wasn't ideal for us to do this forever. It was just a way for us to prove our products, and it was, like, research, like, what products worked. And we had built this everyday lines. It wasn't just jeans and button ups. It's swimwear.

Vicky: 21:20

It's t shirt. A simple t shirt is one of our best selling products because of the fit, but it's all of this complete everyday line. So we are always launching almost like a complete look every single month and, yeah, creating a home.

Kunle: 21:33

With a presale, how do you manage the expectations of product delivery? Because you're just about to put it into production when you get the cash.

Vicky: 21:41

Yep. So we would just put an estimated timeline on the product page itself, and so people would know, okay. This is estimate delivery. And in the beginning, for a while, it was 6 to 10 weeks. And, again, not ideal for us because with that means we were paying error to get the productions here, which can hurt some margins in that way.

Vicky: 22:01

But the goal is to get ahead with fundraising efforts and to get ahead of inventory so that we can save in that way too. But, yeah, we would, clearly communicate estimated delivery.

Kunle: 22:10

Okay. Okay. And then whichever sells fastest, you then have it in stock in for longer term, I presume.

Vicky: 22:18

Yep. And then sometimes we would invest in advance. We knew that, like, chino pants is a top seller. So whenever we had the cash availability, we'd be like, okay. Let's go ahead and order, like, an extra 300 of these.

Vicky: 22:30

And that would even sell fastest because people were just like, okay. They're shipping immediately. Like, I better get in on it now. In an Amazon Prime delivery kinda world, I was shocked that people were still getting in on every campaign knowing that there was couple months they'd have to wait for the product, but they were willing to do.

Kunle: 22:48

Interesting. Super interesting. Did you use, like, invoice financing providers to serve sharp capital to to invest in in inventory, or was it just Butchart 100%?

Vicky: 23:00

It was Bootstrap, and it was, like, Shopify Capital had offered us money as well as pay PayPal Capital. So we were relying heavily on those as well.

Kunle: 23:09

Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. And then with fashion, I was actually speaking to to to someone yesterday who's looking to launch a fashion brand.

Kunle: 23:16

And with fashion, the complexities of size, color, that variation, the there's various combinations of size and color. How accurately demand forecasting on on on what sizes to to launch or because of the presale, I guess, they're just select in this size. It's that smart anyway. Yeah. With the presale yeah.

Kunle: 23:35

How did it work?

Vicky: 23:36

And for us, it was so important to be size inclusive. I'm a plus size person. And so Mhmm. When we were first launching the jeans, the typical, like, base model was way smaller than me. So, actually, why we're able to pull off such a large size ring is because I'm actually the middle base model.

Vicky: 23:53

And so that helped in the development process of that. But, yes, it was the preorder campaign, and that was able, you know, to dictate what our purchase orders were going to be. And so, of course, the largest size, we could even order maybe only 10 and the small size too. So we're able to gauge that with these preorders.

Kunle: 24:11

Okay. And then that minimize is wasted.

Vicky: 24:13

Such a large.

Kunle: 24:14

Returns. What about standardization or because if you go to one store, one brand Mhmm. Sizing is different. So so how did you serve in order to reduce returns and and exchanges, how did you get that accuracy in in in sizing?

Vicky: 24:34

Yeah. For us, it was because I 100% agree, especially when it comes to women's sizing. It's all over the place. To be a double 0, it doesn't make any sense to me. But we actually felt like the men's sizing was more accurate, and so we were just putting out videos of, like, how to measure yourself and with whatever your waist size is is would be your size.

Vicky: 24:55

And then, eventually, we got some pretty incredible apps. Our return rate right now is decent still. I think we're at 11% right now with returns still, which is always a work in progress. We're always striving to be better. For what we're offering here, I think it's a pretty healthy range.

Kunle: 25:13

It's fashion. It's fashion. It's healthy for fashion for sure. I think the standard for fashion by 18, but but, yeah, I might I might be wrong. Let's take a short pause to hear from our sponsors, and we'll be right back.

Kunle: 25:25

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Kunle: 26:59

Use what do you think was the next significant milestone in in Dapper Boy's journey? I know now your capital raising, which we're gonna talk about, But between those successful launches, the prelaunch of products, building the community, how do you think you gained some unfair advantage, competitive advantage? What was that what was that event?

Vicky: 27:30

Yeah. I think there's 2 things here. And the first thing I'm thinking is when we did an equity crowdfunding campaign. So we did start engine back. It was, like, over 2019 to 2020, and and we definitely got a lot of eyes on that on us.

Vicky: 27:43

And we didn't have a PR team at that point, but we were definitely, you know, getting crafty ourselves and getting a lot of media exposure. I mean, we were on Forbes, Entrepreneur, and it was really our own efforts. Again, like, use utilizing Twitter, finding, writers, things like that. And so there was a lot of PR happening at the same time as us raising our campaign. And so during that time when we raised, it was a 284,000 when it was over 500 investors.

Vicky: 28:13

And it was anywhere from 200 to even 5 1,000 in investment we were receiving, and it was all customers. And so, again, it was that viral stuff that was happening at the same time, but it was just a different level than Kickstarter. We were already a established brand within our community. And so it was just constant, like, PR slash this equity crowdfunding, which is just generating more and more exposure to us. And that's where we come to 2021, our the best year we had at that point.

Vicky: 28:43

And what's interesting at this time frame too is from a fundraising standpoint, vulnerable here, but I didn't know that only 1.7% of women owned businesses generate over $1,000,000 in sales a year. And I thought at this time that I had to I I didn't know the stat that I had to keep my head buried, and we just had to work really hard. Again, it was me, my wife, and 2 part time employees doing all of this ourselves and hitting over $1,000,000 a year, 2 years in a row, and not realizing that we we should have been having these early conversations with investors way early on. Yeah. Interesting.

Vicky: 29:25

I just realized here. Yeah.

Kunle: 29:27

No. That that is a phenomenal figure. As in I just wrote it down. 1.7% of women owned businesses make it beyond the 1,000,000 part dollar mark a year, and that that needs to change for sure. It needs to change.

Vicky: 29:42

Well, it's definitely it directly correlates with another very terrible number here is that only 2 per less than 2% of women owned businesses receive venture capital. So of all the venture capital in the world, only 2 percent is going to women. So we're highly undercapitalized.

Kunle: 30:01

Okay. Okay.

Vicky: 30:02

And it it just is a direct reflection of that.

Kunle: 30:05

Okay. Super interesting. This is my first time actually hearing about Start Engine. I'm on their website, and I could see it. It's essentially an equity raising platform.

Kunle: 30:14

So how much equity did you give? From from how much what you you raised 284,000 for what? For from what amount of equity?

Vicky: 30:25

Yeah. It ended up because StartEdge takes their fees too, so I think it's just under 4% total.

Kunle: 30:32

Okay. So you gave 4% of equity in in in DARPA Boy to in in the Yes. Yep. Correct. Okay.

Kunle: 30:40

Okay. Okay. And yeah. And then you yeah. There's a lot of leverage on on our media.

Kunle: 30:46

And then when did you get on Shark Tank? And how what was your journey to Shark Tank?

Vicky: 30:51

Yeah. Shark Tank was 2022.

Kunle: 30:52

Okay.

Vicky: 30:53

Yeah. It was an intense one. So this is where actually things get a little bit crazy, and and this is super vulnerable times here that we experience. So, again, 2021, top of our game. And this October of 2021 is we hit that 185 k a month.

Vicky: 31:08

Then for us is when the supply chain delays really hit our company. So we had placed all these purchase orders based on those campaigns, and then delays started happening. And what happened was is we were selling out of inventory. We didn't have very much to sell at all, actually, and we couldn't ethically launch from 2022 any new campaigns when all of these customers were backed up in campaigns. I mean, we had over 51% repeat customer rate here.

Vicky: 31:36

54% of our, you know, sales were coming from email. So these customers were all, like, in campaigns waiting for products. So 2022 for us was where we almost lost everything. It's just crazy coming off of this high. And at this point too, okay, we are going to lenders.

Vicky: 31:55

Nobody was funding us because they saw the big drastic decrease in sales. But we are at this stuck place where we couldn't launch anything new, and we didn't have much to sell. So we were just waiting, being transparent with customers, like, why their product was delayed. We even ended up selling our home, which was but, again, mentally for us, we had to remember the why and where we were just coming from and that it simply was for us. And I don't advise everybody to do that, of course, but we had this, like, loyal group of customers, and we were really our trajectory degree was high.

Vicky: 32:29

And so we wanted to wait this out, invest in ourselves. And, again, you know, my wife always says this. How could we continue to ask investors for money when we were sitting on this equity? We had to invest in ourselves. So during this time, I also happened to be when we were going through all these interviews with Shark Tank.

Vicky: 32:48

And, again, we were hoping for that to happen too and be able to go to air to film. And so we were going through that process as well as being filmed in this documentary called Show Her the Money. This is all happening at the same time as we were trying to figure out how we were going to survive, but then everyone documenting this very hard time in our lives. It was insanity. I tell you what.

Vicky: 33:11

There was a lot of breakdowns, a lot of them gonna hide their undurides today. But, luckily, my wife, she is a we it's crazy. We're both Leos, August 4th 5th. But I tend to over I tend to overthink on some things, and she's, no. We gotta keep going.

Vicky: 33:26

Let's go. So I was we were able to, like, really lean on each other, remember those stories? Do some very critical exercises and way we're thinking about our business. We had to let go of some people, outside resources, and we had to raise prices. We still did over $500,000 in 2022 with literally one product launch.

Kunle: 33:44

Scary times. When when you're running out your stock, believe me, I've been there. It's scary. It's scary. Yeah.

Kunle: 33:50

It's you because you don't have that many moves to make, to play. It's just your stock essentially, till things start to flow. So how did your supply chain challenges start to ease off at that point in time?

Vicky: 34:06

It's when we got our first investor, actually. When the productions were actually ready, we couldn't figure out how to pay to get them there. We had burned through everything. And so we were like, what are we gonna do? These productions are ready.

Vicky: 34:19

And I started leaning into actual, like, reaching out to investors and fundraising and, again, not knowing this world and just having having to meet someone that I had met years ago. And she was the ultimate connector and actually part of the creator of the film. And I said, hey. We're fundraising right now. This is what we're looking for.

Vicky: 34:39

And she happened to connect me with the right investor that was aligned with our mission. She had known of Dapper Boy. She's a lesbian woman that's been following us for years, remembers our Kickstarter campaign, and she gave us our very first $250,000, investment, which was such a game changer. And this was the same day that we filmed on Shark Tank. The same morning is when we signed off on that safe note.

Kunle: 35:03

The energy Yeah. The energy that brought to the table. Yeah.

Vicky: 35:09

Insane. Yeah.

Kunle: 35:10

Yeah. So how how a $100. Damn.

Vicky: 35:14

We had a $100 left to our name, and we have twin 6 year olds. And so we were, like, selling our home and going through that process. And we were like, okay. We can't even get we have enough gas to get to LA for this filming right now. And, luckily, our friends and our models were just so supportive, and they were there on stage with us.

Vicky: 35:32

And but, yeah, that morning, she had signed off, and we were able to get all those productions in. And it was and more inventory. So we're able to start again, and people did not leave. Our customers were waiting that entire year for us to launch again. Mhmm.

Vicky: 35:47

Yeah. It's been wild, but it was it's been amazing ever since and exciting times.

Kunle: 35:53

Amazing. The alignment also with your first Investo to be a customer, that is bless that's a blessing in of itself because they get you. They know you. They feel you as in their customers. That's truly a line there.

Kunle: 36:10

It's phenomenal. That that that that is that's very interesting. So the capital essentially got it going. How much equity did you give for the 250?

Vicky: 36:21

Yeah. So we're raising on a safe note. And, actually, this is the same round that we're in right now. So this is 2022 for us. And but that time, it was a 5,000,000 valuation cap here.

Vicky: 36:32

So she's invested more almost $1,000,000 of her cents. So she's 20% will be a safe note. So yep.

Kunle: 36:39

Fair fair fair fair enough. Fair enough. As in it's a big ship and where you're going from a size perspective, how you're going to build a brand longer term, and and she will potentially bring more investors on board as you continue to hit your milestones. Okay. Tell tell us about the Shark Tank.

Kunle: 36:56

I haven't watched your the the Shark Tank video, but and I'll link to it in the show notes, actually, because it it will be somewhere online. I'll link actually puts it on our website. But how did that go?

Vicky: 37:08

That was a crazy process. It's exactly what on TV. It's that long haul, and my wife and I holding hands, which was also so cool to be able to see, again, an LGBTQ brand. Like, we're walking hand in hand walking up to that stage. And we were in the tank actually for quite some time.

Vicky: 37:27

There's some heavy editing, of course. We're, you know, there's a lot of, founders that are going up and pitching there. But overall, actually, Sharks were very kind to us, and it shows Damon at the end him giving us his number to be a mentor for us. That's who we were hoping for is because we felt like he would get it the most because of FUBU. It's a very niche, unique audience.

Vicky: 37:50

But I think where the miss was is it's almost again, there's so many lessons learned along this whole entrepreneur journey, and this one is one of them. You know, I wish it wasn't so focused on the production, on the selling our home, on all of that because, like, our stats are incredible, and I wish there was just more on that. And I think where there was a misunderstanding between the 2, and I take accountability for this, is we're not trying to create a third category. And I think that's where the misconception is or was with them is that they thought we were almost too niche and that we weren't going to be big. And our whole purpose, like, we see ourselves as the next Levi's of all gender fashion.

Vicky: 38:33

It's that staple brand you always think about. And I think for us, the 3rd category is a big no for me, and it's because I don't think people's re are ready for that. I don't think mainstream is ready for that. I think that automatically we saw that with there's a brand called tomboy x, and they were in the pride section during the month of June. And that's not what we're looking to be.

Vicky: 38:53

This is not about being gay. It's about body type and style preference, and that is it. So, like, the question is is, okay, Vicky. Where would Dapper Boy go in a department store? I mean, you're thinking about Macy's or something like that.

Vicky: 39:06

And I'm asked this question all the time. And I think that I have a couple of answers for this. Are they ready? I I don't know, and I don't think so quite today. And that's why I'm focusing all efforts on direct to consumer, and we're coming up with, like, virtual reality fittings and things like that.

Vicky: 39:23

But I don't think it's the end for that. I think that the best way to do it is in baby steps and having Dapper Boy in both sections for now. And it's because we want men and people to be open to this thought. So instead, maybe it's okay. There's a jeans section in the men's section, and they're saying, these are interesting.

Vicky: 39:43

I've never really heard inclusive and stuff like that, but I'm gonna try it. And, wow, these fit great. And maybe they'll look a little bit into the brand and see, oh, this is what all gender is instead of being so triggering, like, LGBT. Oh my god. Mhmm.

Vicky: 39:54

You know what I mean? Like, it can be so scary. But I think that's where we start to make change, and that's where we start not necessarily 3rd category, but maybe it's just based on style preference. And then we start really thinking about the layout of stores and and things like that.

Kunle: 40:08

So It's a safe space to explore.

Vicky: 40:10

Process on that.

Kunle: 40:11

Speaking as a man, I'm seeing it's in a department store. Seeing seeing Dapper Boy in a department store in a Macy's is just a safe place for me to explore. I would pick it up, try it in a changing room, try try a pair of jeans, try a pair of chinos in a changing room, and not feel anyhow. And that's where to to start conversations, really.

Vicky: 40:29

Yes. I agree with you.

Kunle: 40:31

VC stores. Do you would you do you see yourself opening any flagship stores anytime soon?

Vicky: 40:37

I don't think so. I'm really trying because, again, we're very, like, money conscientious here. So we're trying to keep the low overhead. I'm totally okay, and and I'm open to this. We've thought about this before doing, like, maybe it's, pop up shops as we're, like

Kunle: 40:51

Mhmm.

Vicky: 40:52

Maybe it's, like, a year long journey where we're just going up and people can meet us in person and do these pop up shops. It's not in the plan with this particular round of funding. We're being very strategic with every dollar right now, but that is something I'm definitely open to. What I am doing, though, is having these conversations. Like, I've already talked with Macy's, Nordstrom's, Target, Walmart.

Vicky: 41:13

I'm getting in the faces and saying, hey. I don't know if we're ready to have this chat. I just want you to remember my face. I'm literally saying that exactly verbatim to them because when we are, that'll be exciting times.

Kunle: 41:26

Yeah. Yeah. Which would be exactly how you got your investor in the first place in terms of it was years in the making. You you met her many years ago. And when the time was right, you you had that conversation and it happened and it happened.

Kunle: 41:39

Yes. Yeah. Good stuff. Good stuff. Okay.

Kunle: 41:42

And with, again, the your returning customer rate is insane. It's 51%.

Vicky: 41:49

Yes. Still Which indicates

Kunle: 41:51

you have very loyal customers. Do you have any loyalty programs or reward programs in embedded in your d two c experience?

Vicky: 41:58

We do. I think it really came from initially, though. It's those preorder campaigns, those drops that we were doing, and why that's so high is just people were waiting for it. We also utilize it's an app called LoyaltyLion, and that's in the background on our Shopify store. So we use that, and, actually, we're about to launch a very, like, personalized gift.

Vicky: 42:19

So, like, we have the squad is, like, the base tier. Ballers is the 2nd tier, and the highest tier is shot callers. And it's just, like, fun, personable branding. Again, it's all about confidence. But what we're about to do is once you hit a certain level, we're sending them a personalized gift that you can't find on the website.

Vicky: 42:37

It's a hat with the circle d b logo on it that's just cool that I wear actually all the time. So it's like a different color for each of the baller and shot collar, and it's post on social about it. It's exclusive. It's, again, like that feeling. Yeah.

Vicky: 42:51

So we're always pumping up. People are using their points all the time. I feel like that's also been essential. But I will say, there's a point too where you don't want it to be so high, and we had actually recently reached that. We were actually over even a month yeah.

Vicky: 43:05

About 2 months ago, where we were 70% repeat customer rate. Mhmm. And that is not a good thing because that means we're not reaching new people. And so there is that half happy balance, and that is something that, again, as we're fundraising here, the goal is to get ahead of inventory. We think now again, we're not doing preorder campaigns anymore, but the magic sauce is going to be keeping those core products in stock all the time, our jeans, chino pants, those should be in stock all the time.

Vicky: 43:33

But then doing these limited drops, but shipping immediately, no more preorders, and just keeping that, like, that loyal group waiting for the next full new drop. And so there's gotta be this happy medium, and I think that's where we are just going to

Kunle: 43:49

soar. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because as your community expands, the new sets of customers or community members would be less forgiving on, like, supply chain issues. So once you fundamentally sort out supply chain issues, you're you're essentially also increasing dopamine in in terms of the reward.

Kunle: 44:08

So they they buy, they get it immediately, they get it gives them confidence to buy again. So you might actually increase frequency if they're loving the experience. And with the numbers you have, returning customer rates of 51%, it just indicates there's a lot of high there's a lot of product quality. There's high product quality and high utility of for for your products. So it just means that it's scalable as you continue to acquire more new customers.

Kunle: 44:36

And so you you just need to essentially be in stock. It's an operational challenge. Yes. Also, once you get that in place, you're ready to just scale essentially. That's interesting.

Kunle: 44:46

Super, super interesting.

Vicky: 44:48

Yeah. No. I think the goal for us too is we have customers in the UK and Canada, Australia. And so, eventually, as we're able to scale within the US, the next goal is to have these same production amounts going to these other countries utilizing fulfillment centers there. So shipping isn't just so insane, and I think that's how we really scale.

Vicky: 45:09

And I can't wait to get to that point.

Kunle: 45:12

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And there there are also third party logistics, so just to scale internationally, there there are also third party logistic companies. So I don't know where you where your production is.

Kunle: 45:26

Boy, if your production is based in China, you could use services like Portless that will and and it works really well for apparel because it's very easy to ship. So what they do is they use the Shen model in the sense that they pick up inventory, they pick and pack inventory, they put it on on on airplanes inbound to say the UK, to Canada, or wherever, and then they pre label it with a local carrier in China. So by the time it lands Heathrow or Heathrow Airport in the UK or or anywhere in Canada or any international destination, it's going through their postal system, meaning that customers get their goods in 7 to 10 days. And so it's like production to customer in in that way, and and you don't necessarily need to and and the prices are fairly decent. I I had I had the founder on on on the podcast and was really fast.

Kunle: 46:20

And we actually use their service for one of our brands, and it works particularly well for Aperol just due to the fact that it's much lighter to handle. So it takes us cargo space. Yeah. Super exciting. So what are your thoughts for the next the the next 24 months, next 2 years?

Kunle: 46:38

What's your plans for Dappaboy for the next 2 years?

Vicky: 46:42

Yeah. I think us as an operational team, you were we're looking to expand to some very key team members that we need. I know Charice and I are still, to this day, in the weeds doing every part. We're writing the emails, all of that too. So Wow.

Vicky: 46:57

We need some key players to help us expand. I'm reading at this book right now. 10 x is easier than 2 x. And I love that mindset thought of scaling your brand. But I think for us, as for the brand side, we're talking to some pretty exciting players right now.

Vicky: 47:14

As in we're working with a company called Couture Technologies, and we're so close right now, and it's a virtual fitting. So, basically, again, to lower our return rate, but I think people when it comes to, like, gender neutral apparel, it is scary. Like, you don't know what size you are in particular. It's easier for men to shop on our site than it is for women because they're not used to this kind of sizing. So to be able to see the clothing on your body and actually choose your outfit pieces, you can create your virtual closet and see exactly what that shirt and bottoms are gonna look.

Vicky: 47:46

There's a heat map where you can see where it's, like, tighter, where it's and it looks so realistic. It's so exciting. But we're just working on very simple fixes here. It's like the stance of the model. Is it too feminine or masculine?

Vicky: 47:59

But this will be the first time that it's gonna be a truly genderless experience and not you have to pick a male or a woman. And so that is very exciting. We're hoping to be able to launch that by end of this year. We're very close right now.

Kunle: 48:13

What's the name of the app, please?

Vicky: 48:14

So it it's a company called Couture Technologies. Couture Partners. Together to yeah. Yeah. It's it's gonna be awesome.

Vicky: 48:22

And so that'll, again, just create that trust with folks as they're shopping with their brand. But, yeah, other than that, we're getting ahead of inventory, getting to our goal here of doing these limited release drops the same time as scaling our core products. For us too right now, we're working with this incredible new ad team. We've gone through a lot of different agencies throughout the years here, but we've never had one so strategic right now. And we're seeing consistently 4 or 5 times return on ad spend right now with just creatives that were that we've had.

Vicky: 48:53

We have so much creative. That's so key too, but we haven't been able to strategically dive in. And so we're acquiring so many more new customers. And that's how we were able to get that 71% back to that 51% right now. Mhmm.

Vicky: 49:06

And so we're consistently seeing $4,000 days during the week, which is awesome. And as we're scaling and and that's with no new launches. That's just with core products. So imagine, I can't wait to be having those. Yeah.

Vicky: 49:19

They're called Socialite, and they're in Canada.

Kunle: 49:22

Okay. Alright. Socialite. I love

Vicky: 49:23

them at a re retail fest. They're amazing.

Kunle: 49:26

Okay. Okay. We'll link to them in the show notes. That's in incredible, incredible stuff. Vicky, for people who wanna find out to just who've enjoyed it, anyone who's listening till now has enjoyed listening to you.

Kunle: 49:39

It's been all about you. How where next? How can they follow your journey moving forward from here? I'd like to build your community.

Vicky: 49:48

No. Thank you. I appreciate that. It's funny. My wife and I recently just started an Instagram because people are wanting to follow us personally in doing this whole brand, And so we really show behind the scenes.

Vicky: 49:58

And as we're even, like, putting launching new products, things like that, how we're developing it, all of that, and that's meet the Pashas on Instagram. So that's Thank you. And we're crazy. We're doing fun stuff for sure, but it's me to underscore the underscore pashas, p a s c h e s. So that's the behind the scenes.

Vicky: 50:19

But I would say also, of course, dapper boy on Instagram, and that's dapper and b o I. Uh-huh. So it's spelled Dapper Boy.

Kunle: 50:27

I'll follow both accounts on on on my socials now.

Vicky: 50:31

Awesome. Vicky,

Kunle: 50:32

it's been an absolute pleasure just learning about the journey thus far. Wish you the very best moving forward, and, yeah, just, yeah, thoroughly and enjoy this convo for sure.

Vicky: 50:43

Me too. Thank you so much for having me on your show. Truly a pleasure.

Kunle: 50:47

Alright. Cheers.